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I don't remember specific teachings, but did keep researching to find out who and what he stood for. A great man who left a legacy of God's kindness into the world. Charisma magazine a couple of months ago had a great article on one of the King family members who was involved in the pro-life movement. Her picture on the cover of the magazine was so breath-takingly beautiful.

This kind of revelation is some of the more embarrassing aspects of being involved in the org.

If your debit card has VISA on it, you _can_ contest the charges and put a (at least a temporary) stop on them getting your money. This is ALWAYS true, whether the company is mail order, or a brick and mortar company. _Always!_ They then play arbiter where you and Spiegel can then argue your respective cases to them. They (VISA) then decide on who gets the cash. Far more often than not, it keeps ripoff companies from making off with your money. I've done it before.

Oh Hammie, it is f'ed up. It's pretty much playing out the way I told them it would. I could say I hate being right, but that's not true.

Now I know why I kept silent about my life before TWI.

How do you know that they are being open about anything? Does what they say line up with your PERSONAL experience, as in you live here in Indy and spend time with them on a regular basis? I would have said the same thing until I actually did spend time with them - lots of time. Once I did that, my perspective changed significantly. Thomas - my take is that the comment about the grandkids was speculation - like the speculation about JAL's exit being a business decision. After all, how hard is it to simply answer the question if you know the answer?

Maybe it has something to do with the fig pep and all.. actually.. I think the familia tasted a whole heck of a lot better with a little bit of olive oil.. but I "rolled my own" (the familia).. and it was a lot more generous with almonds, walnuts, pecans, etc.. than what would ordinarily be served..

Why do I feel hungry when I think about "familia" spirits?

I dunno.. in a way, its nice to fit one of the above descriptions. *They* will leave you alone.. won't "witness" so much or anything..

reincarnation advocate.. hmm. what's really weird.. people who fit the above descriptions, I have a *serious* interest in understanding why they think what they think.. as far as reincarnation goes.. I have a few vivid impressions of what may have been in other lifetimes. But of course, it is all subjective. It might only be another illusion, no worse than others..

Bet you won't make that mistake again...

I almost expected you to say.. If it walks like a multi-level marketing program, and quacks like a multi-level program...

I highly doubt it was doctrinal also.. I heard JAL personally a year ago and know what STFI puts out, and I think they are both nuts! But I don't think those nuts are fit for a squirrel (Ham)! They both believe and teach that God makes mistakes. (He's only 98% correct, doncha know! That's why he's not in control!) They both believe Christ made mistakes and said/did incorrect things because He didn't know the everything. They both still teach personal prophecy, only it's not at the forefront anymore. And since God/Christ make mistakes, personal prophecy could be wrong, it's all about practice! (Order our DVD for only $$$$) They still promote the "We are better and have better doctrine than anyone else" philosophy.. There are "nuttier" things that JAL does say at times, but what else do you expect! He's human! lol..

Maybe.. if you watch eyes roll up at the mention of "merry Christmas"..

Well.. you can understand the *other* seriously disturbed.. but you don't have to agree with them exactly.. which is fine. Some think we are all insane fragments of Diety, trying to find their way home.. I'm not sure I entirely disagree..

Perhaps. But maybe one has to define "reality". As in.. "oh my gawd.. now I need a manicure to fix the effects of my desperate clawing.. etc. etc.." so one updates one' profile on facebook.. "send in the beauticians and manicurists.." I'm not saying I agree with it, I just understand it.. there are advantages to being seriously disturbed..

I won't argue the fact. The Problem, isn't being serious disturbed. The real *problem* is not knowing one is seriously disturbed. Without this kind of insight, one can not take advantage of one's state of disturboudnouss, or lack thereof, for one's advantage, if one is aware of it..

hey.. at least he had a few good drugs..

well, sowie.. I don't take it all that so serious anymore.. I don't expect people to somehow miraculously "walk by the spirit" and get the true intent of what I have to say here.. why am I here.. sometimes it's just because this is where the party is "happening" of sorts.. I don't think you were being lambasted. Maybe that's the effect of the response.. maybe its more like people here were trying to understand you.. your name.. papertrained.. there are MANY connotations.. my screen name is ham, mainly because I have a ham radio license.. I got involved in ham radio a few years before my departure from the way..

Not really.. I think it was a legitimate question to ask.. "if the product is so hot, how'd he *miss it*"? Skyrider brought up a few good points too. Leonard told vic flat out "no".. confronts him in Calgary "Didn't I tell you not to come?" the vicster badgers leonard into letting him stay.. if anyone was thumping leonard, it was probably himself after realizing vic robbed him blind..

reminds me of an "illustration" from Shakespeare.. "a scam by any other name smells the same.." no wonder the vicster hated illustrations from Shakespeare, Chaucer..

Good question :) the "twig hopper" was a one of a kind production, wasn't it? the harley.. and side car.. how many times did the "mrs" really ride in it? I think I threw a few bucks in the special collection for that thing..

I dunno.. this is kinda a side note to the discussion.. but considering leonard couldn't see through huckster vic.. let's just say I'm not exactly impressed with leonards operation of "discerning of spirits" or something.. maybe the product was flawed, to begin with..

No no no. I went directly to Bullinger..

good to see you again.. what I'm trying to figure out.. your use of the genitive. "of douche". Is this the genitive of character, a noun in regimen.. "bags of douche".. a noun (douche) being used as an adjective (with emphasis)? Or is it the genitive of origon and efficient cause, the source of which these "bags" have their origin.. or is it the genitive of possession.. the bags in leadership *positions* which contain douche.. or is it.. genitive of apposition.. "bags" that is to say, or which are, "douche".. or is it the genitive of contents.

The CRIME of "Threatening and Intimidating" is, in many instances a felony. Arizona Criminal Code on Threatening or Intimidating Arizona Revised Statutes cover this in Title 13 (Criminal Code), in Chapter 12 (Assault and related offenses). In other words, legally speaking, it is considered violent crime.

excuse my manners Factfinder. Welcome to Greasespot Cafe. I hope you find what you need, and enjoy your stay.

fired JL? that would be like *** ******* ************** firing ***** ***** I self- moderated the above post. For the pleasure of the viewing audience.. Fire him? he's the "poster child" for ex-way offshoots or whatever, for crying out loud.. Let me add a more "sober" reply.. it would be like killing the goose, who laid the golden egg.. I didn't think he was "fireable" to begin with.. mog and all ya know..

Dot posted on facebook that she was ok... my cousin was in Atlanta tonight and waiting for delayed flights out... she lives in the rural DC area...