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Two peanuts walked into a rowdy bar, one was a salted.

You'll have to forgive T-Bone. He has this habit of rambling on and on... George

yup

Yes, WG, I understand the trusting of one primarily. That feeling of that one person having my back no matter what, understanding me even if I'm not understandable. Also and maybe as wonderful is that trust including that one having the strength to say "sheesh, who shat in your oatmeal" but then staying around long enough to hear the answer. So, yes, there can be someone who does know us. Those relationships come with time and communication and maintenance and I do happen to be blessed with that kind of relationship. My daughters know me, mostly, and I trust them within reason to consider lovingly what I've said or done. But that's come only with 27 years of time and blood and sweat and tears. In a forum such as this it does behoove us to read and maybe read again and consider before we just react. Maybe ask more questions, maybe remain open ended for a time. Remember TWI used to teach that no one knows our heart except God and I think they might have added that we, ourselves, know our own hearts. But I'd agree with them that, indeed, our hearts can not be fully known by another unless we consider more than just what is obvious or apparent, be willing to do some back and forth and trust enough to be honest. I asked my maternal grandmother once about the Bible; what was all that and am I supposed to do anything. She said the only one I needed to concern myself with was doing unto others as I wished them to do unto me. Now, 50 years of life has taught me well that it's not nearly that simple, really, even if applicable. But she had the basic information correct. Even in a faceless forum with no eye contact, no body language, no voice? Yes

The Highway said: I wasn't in the College Div., but in Family Corps V (we graduated with the 9th Corps), we had those same classes plus Keys to Research, Figures of Speech, the Book of Acts, Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew (and some others I can't think of right now). I missed most of the Hebrew class because I was at LEAD, though. Most of the class instructors were excellent; a few were yawners. I did like the "block" curriculum model. I thought it was helpful to focus on one subject at a time rather than taking a bunch of classes at once in shorter sessions. Twinky, you got 4 hours of private study time every day?? I would have loved that! We worked 4 hours in the morning and had class in the afternoon (or vice versa), plus evening classes, Corps nights, SNS, Sunday a.m. fellowship., whatever. Add to that scullery duty, chair stringing, and the other chores around the campus, and free time was minimal. We did get some decent blocks of time our last in-rez year when we were working on our research papers, but not every day. I enjoyed that time immensely. LCM assigned your topic??? Good grief. When I was in, at least we got to pick our own topics. Mine was on "Overcoming Hardness of Heart in Leadership." My advisor said, "Why in the world did you choose that?" I said "Because I've seen too many hard-a$$es in the Corps." He sorta looked at me funny, but he didn't ask me to change it. It was one of my best times in residence except for the typing, which gave me carpal tunnel syndrome...lol. It was before the computer age had really hit...boy, what I would have given for one at that time!!!

doughnut is right-zero is of course the answer even then, I knew that there was no way he was going to hop on that bike and show up at twigs-though that's exactly what he should have been doing-after all the life was in the twigs, the corps was all about training twig leaders, the whole twig thing was his 'church'-what would make more sense than him to enjoy retirement by visiting and blessing those who have supported him and his mission I know-I'm laughing at how absurd it sounds even as I write it.

:) Jeff, as you know this issue is very important for me to discuss and not take lightly or with any dismissive tone whatsoever; it's the reality for so many women, sadly. One of the reasons I HAD to get out of twi was the lead pervert sidled up to me and reminded me my then 16 year old daughter was "almost ready for him", leaving no doubt whatsoever of his intent. Unfortunately I did not take the action I would today if some sexually abusive sonovabi+ch made such a comment to me where one of my daughters was concerned. I'd probably be writing this from some prison library if they let me have the privelege. This issue of women feeling like they have to be pawns of spirituality where men are concerned is overdue to be dealt with, addressed and stopped where possible. What can be done on a daily basis, perhaps, I don't know. As a mother of daughters all I know to do is tell them these kinds of stories, give them the tools to feel strengthened in their own right in church or any other place where men might want to use their bodies for such abuse and misuse in the "name of God". Kizka, I agree with Jeff, your post(s) have been very brave and I applaud you for the strength to disclose something so private and personal about yourself. For having the courage to say "it happened to me"; that does take an insurmountable act of bravery and honesty and trust of the readers here. For all but one year during our time in TWI, I was in a pretty strong marriage, thus not being one of their targets. (this has not always been the norm, I know that, it just was for me) While I experienced a few remarks and/or suggestive comments, I somehow knew that they knew my marriage was one of fidelity and if they wanted to persue any of their fool behavior further, they'd have a large and very pis*ed off husband up their asz. In fact, he did have to confront a time or two, expressing our marriage as a reminder and it was left as "yeah, I'd never mess with YOUR wife" and they didn't. Until he died. At that time I was on my own and the men in the fellowship(s) said they would be my head, they would see to my needs, they would take care of me. I was able to avoid any such confrontation, for the most part, except and until the comment about my oldest daughter that was a blazing neon flag to GTFO and I did, only 2 months later as I could figure it all out. The dynamics that make us who we are are profound and men who profess to be of God learn to recognize those dynamics. Somehow it's as if any childhood abuse screams from our person and says something to them that reads "She will do anything I say". Somehow they have honed their ability, however misplaced or incorrect, but assumed, to feel comfortable taking information we might have disclosed and using it against us. Classic abuse of power to which so many fall victim if only because of fear of further dismissal, retribution, fall from the grace of God or whatever s/he percieves as truth, given ones background, how persuasive the current liar is or other pressure we might never know of. Jeff, your sharing your own experiences puts a man's view to things, which is apreciated and welcomed by any that might assume anything. My oldest daughter, mentioned at beginning of post, seemed to be looking for family when her dad died; missing totally that she still had her mama and sister and extended loved ones at her disposal. She so badly needed to hear comfort and acceptance and consolation, looking for it in local gangs mostly. If the lead pervert had not made his comment to me, might she have been in a perfect vulnerable position to be his next victim? Thankfully we'll never know. And our family was about as "normal" as one can get; no abuse in the home, no violence, there was more than enough love and kindness and acceptance. I add that to suggest that it's not just the dynamics of our backgrounds, not just because of our history, not necessarily because we seem to wear some victim flag; it's about power and control and abusing of same.

One day we shall know as we are known...slightly scary prospect. One day all hurt and pain will be washed away. Till then, we need to show a little (okay, a lot) of compassion and kindness. We all have a few hurts. We all have off days. And (like it or not0 we all need someone to be sympathetic, kind, once in a while.

Hi sky4it, I am very sorry about the trouble your friend is in. And I respect the need to vent here at GSC and have done so myself from time to time and I hope you continue to come to terms with things in a manner that works well for you. But if you are up for the discussion I would like to share something with you that I told a man that I know a few days ago when describing my Greasespot cafe experience. I told him,"My education started when I realized that some of the atheists were more just than some of the people who believed the very same things that I did!" So even though I do not mind giving you space to vent, I do not like that you blamed atheists for your friends predicament, as if the atheists that are Greasespotters had anything to do with your friends predicament. Unless there is some kind of history in her story that I know nothing about, but only because you did not see fit to share it, your blame is misplaced. But as far as the former TWI bigshots who messed up her head I think it likely that I would see the blame that they may very likely deserve placed right at their feet. WHY DID YOU FEEL THE NEED TO BE SUCH A "HEAVY" ABOUT IT ALL ANYWAY, what did it really help, besides let you vent a bit anyway?