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Showing content with the highest reputation on 10/02/2009 in all areas

  1. This morning my teenager heard me give her instruction on what I needed her to do this afternoon, I said it to her face. Because she's mine and I think she's very funny, it struck me when she said "you don't know me". Sometimes she says "you're not the boss of me" but the point is she knows which she can 'get away with' and when. I don't wish to discuss my daughter here, I just wanted that as intro to our own reality; we don't know each other, most of us at all, not even a little bit. I know a few posters here enough to say in jest 'you don't know me', having full knowledge that yes, you do know me and get me, understand what I say and how in the hell I mean it. That's an extra bonus when I don't even really know for sure what I meant. We judge, we assign, we assume, we label, we stereotype, we pigeonhole (I don't really understand that one but the list needed one more) and we think we know a poster here by their words typed on a screen. In fact, it's extremely difficult, even on a really good day, to really know. If my morning with my teenager were not at pleasant and I come to GSC and bark at the readers here, do you know I am out of sorts cuz I live with a teenage daughter? Not unless I say so, nope. If I have a disagreement with my boss and need to blow somewhere, GSC might be a great place to unload. And you might read my words and wonder what the hell got into me to make me so surly. Actually I'm the boss, so that disagreement could be weird, but you didn't know that til I told ya, huh? I've been hanging out in this joint for 11 years (waydale before here). O M G........ My point in admitting that is to understand that many of you have chatted with me, read my stuff here or in my blog, heard about me. A few have been in my home, been trusted with my children, feel comfortable talking to me on the phone. You would understand and say "I know you" and know from whence I'm coming in a post. Online communities are interesting and strange and sometimes frightening places that we have to make a choice about every day. No eye contact, body language, voice influx. We have to meet each other where it appears we are today and not get constipated if we might not be where we were yesterday. If I tell you I've been sexually assaulted in my life in a thread here, do you believe me? You don't have to, no. If you choose to believe me then we can share dialogue and perhaps, hopefully educate and help each other. If you tell me you've been in a car accident, I can't see your injuries, I can't hear pain in your voice. I will pray with and for you and offer whatever assist I might from such a distance in such a faceless manner. Trust is a scary journey.
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  2. I have to agree with you Shellon on every point of yours that I happen to be intelligent enough to recognize. It is all about power and control and abusing of same. I guess for me here at GSC all I can do is support anyone who tries to bring this touchy and overdue topic up for discussion. For me, it is bad enough to see a man who has no conscience concerning playing women for whatever he can get from them. But when I see a ministry where the systematic abuse was sooo bad that even your sixteen year old daughter was being set up to sate the piggish lust of these supposed men of God I get a little stirred up too. As a young man I can definitely remember the pull of a pretty and flirtatious young woman. But in your case we are talking about a TWI leader scum-sucking bottom feeder who felt enough confidence in his ability to manage people that he actually asked you....her momma.... if she "was ready" for him. I keep forgetting the name you gave me for this guy..... I will ask you again later I suppose. This guy absolutely must become a card carrying member of my permanent sh!t list. And even though that list will ultimately come to nothing most likely I really, really believe that this type of TWI leader deserves to be remembered for the evil things that they have done.
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  3. Yeah. Trust is a scary thing with people you do see face to face. That probably is why there are two entities I know I can trust; one I do know face to face and the Other I don't, yet. WG
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  4. I never got from Leonard that he openly plagiarized others while maintaining a life long habit of building his name and reputation on the backs of others' sweat, blood, and tears as Wierwille did. One poster pointed out the freakin obvious to me now how that even where it concerned wierwille's very own research dept. at hq. that every single work was published while giving no credit to the poor reasearch dept. that often did it's best under Wierwille's arbitrary and abusive thumb. I don't ever remember Leonard building a ministry where virtually every leader fell under the sway of whoring themselves for a little name recognition either. But I have enjoyed some of the doctrinal threads that openly and honestly have called B.G.'s doctrines into question. Isn't that what we were even taught (theoretically anyway) to do with Wierwille's doctrines even according to PFAL teaching!? As a Christian this is where I go with this kind of valid observation from nonchristians George..... According to scripture it is God's people who end up in the most trouble when unbelievers happen to be correct in pointing out the the believers sometimes suck. Once I was part of a threeway dispute between me, a Baptist minister, and a Jehovah's witness on a South carolina street corner while I was a WOW ambassador. When I realized how stupid all of us were behaving at the time I walked away and hoped that I would never need to feel like I should be involved in some kind of fruitles, "Mine's bigger than yours" conversation ever again. But even after that experience I have probably blown it on occasion.....sigh.
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  5. And if I may digress for a moment, and eventually, if one gets painfully honest (IMNSHO), it doesn't look too good for Christianity to be a valid concept either. From where I am now, all the religious arguments about Jesus or Buddha or Mohammed or Krishna or Christian Science vs. Mormon vs. Judaism, etc. ad infinitum, just seem remarkably similar to Trekkies arguing over which Star Trek character could beat up which other character, or if Superman was stronger than the Fantastic Four. It's all so silly. (Yes, I know, I'm gonna get mine one day, that's fer sure. And, boy, won't I regret it then, yada, yada,...)
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  6. Ham.....you certainly have a point, but other facts add insight to this. 1) According to Mrs. W's book.....when vpw called Leonard about getting into his class, Leonard refused wierwille (on the phone) and told him no. 2) Leonard confronted wierwille at the door.....when vpw show up at the Calgary class. 3) Somehow wierwille talked his way into the class..........Leonard's mistake. 4) Wierwille was thrilled with the class.....and repeated it, with Mrs. & Don & others, in June. 5) Not until much later, did Leonard realize that wierwille was teaching his class. Wierwille's true colors started flying high (plagairism, stolen material, not crediting Leonard).....and Leonard started copyrighting his material. 6) The Way Ministry is a splinter group of B.G. Leonard's ministry. :blink:
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  7. I dunno.. this is kinda a side note to the discussion.. but considering leonard couldn't see through huckster vic.. let's just say I'm not exactly impressed with leonards operation of "discerning of spirits" or something.. maybe the product was flawed, to begin with..
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  8. Hi again Kizka, I have to agree with much of what brainfixed said. Just as anywhere else, but maybe on the internet especially, folks are not often what they seem. I am guessing since you have been a member here for a while that this fact has not escaped you. Heck, I have heard stories of even people pretending to be one gender while seeking relationships with their own gender. And no matter what one thinks of relationships or their own choice of gender preference it seems obvious to me that dishonesty is not a healthy place to start a relationship of any kind. I think that your first post was very brave. The folks that have had the most impact on me since I came here had the courage to share their own stories without much in the way of pulling any punches. And I think many TWI trained predators may see a woman who admits to certain patterns as you have as a possible mark, I would hope that posting at GSC with your anonymity in place may provide you with a certain safe distance from folks who may try to play you. At least it gives you the chance to fully consider a post or private message before responding in any manner at all, which you have the right to not respond to any overtures of any kind if you wish to not respond. Let me just say that if any man at all has tried to contact you thinking to start any relationship that you already know is unhealthy for you as you have stated plainly, that I am embarrassed a little for us all. And if any woman has contacted you privately in order to warn you off of continuing this thread that there may well be good reasons and personal ones at that for their warnings. But when I first saw your post I thought that this thread may be a good opportunity for both women and men to discuss the folly concerning our own personal relationships that TWI may have built into us. I know for certain that as a young man that I was attracted to other young women who professed Godliness but also had a certain sexual edge to them and their relationships without the necessary love and commitment. So it seems to me that even us men may have the same kind of unhealthy patterns that you have described from your own perspective. But I already know for certain that you are not the only one with the issues that you share with us. And it was very brave IMO of you to be up front with us concerning some of your issues. But without honest participation from any of the gals and guys that I know could really relate to your situation it is unfortunately inevitable that even an outstanding topic such as this thread will come to nothing out here in broad daylight where we can all see just what is happening. And I hope that for you Kizka, that the things that may be going on behind the scene are not troublesome for you. Take care and God bless, JEFF
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  9. Dear JT, Thanks for your comment. I'm glad you enjoy using the Interlinear, although I think we're talking about two different publications. You are referring to the Interlinear, I'm talking about the Concordance. The Concordance was not the translation of the N.T. but the other one-book publication that came out in 1985 several years before the line-by-line Interlinear translation that you have in several volumes. It's like Strong's or Young's Concordance that lists words, their definition, and where they appear in the text. There's a companion volumne that is English to Syriac (Aramaic) that we also produced that would help people use the Concordance. Now, the translation that appears in the Interlinear you have began in full force after the Concordance came out in August 1985. Joe Wise did all the translation for it except of the Book of Revelation. I only helped in minor ways by checking and editing a little bit. So why did he stop at the Book of Revelation in the translation for the Interlinear? In March 1986 LCM told Walter Cummins to tell Joe he must discontinue working on the project; that as of August 1986 he would no longer have a job at HQ because he was "too academic." At the time, the ministry was in an uproar after Chris Geer read his Passing of the Patriarch in April and everything was being - how would you say - challenged? In my opinion, this was a terrible mistake. Keep in mind, this is my view of what happened. But I was in the research dept. from Aug 1984- Aug 1986 and worked on this project. When Joe had to leave in August 1986, I resigned from research. This is a long story I do not plan to write on this web site. Suffice it to say, another Corps grad was brought on staff to finish the translation for the Interlinear. I personally do not know whether that person made any changes to the translation that Joe had already written. So the lawsuit cited at the beginning of this post that TWI is bringing against the group in Texas asserts that they stole the translation (the one you have in several volumes) that we originally worked on. What that final translation that was published contains exactly, I do not know because I was not there to see whether the other Corps person who came after us changed Joe's translation or not. And I do not have a copy of Joe's original translation. Hope this clarifies things for you. Contact me any time.
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  10. Didn't we learn that technique in "Twig Leader Training" or one of those other so-called classes? 1. Tell them what you're going to tell them. 2. Tell them. 3. Tell them what you told them. (Should I repeat that?) :P
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  11. I think that in one sense you are no different than most people in that you are attracted to certain things that may not be good for us. But the added aspect in your case of being suckered by people who hypocritically use their self-righteousness to victimize you in God's name gives these turds a whole other level of accountability before the Lord that makes their eventual reward especially painful. But I hope you come to terms with this thing before it bites you again kizka. And even though it may not be necessary, I suppose it can't hurt to say that I am happily taken and have every intention of not screwing that up because of any such possible foolishness. (edited for grammar and spelling)
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