Leaderboard

Great points Twinky, chockfull, & Groucho.. Yeah, as far as learning anything of real substance my mind draws a blank from Family 11 residency. Somewhat odd isn’t it – they touted themselves as a biblical research and teaching ministry and there we were in their leadership training program – you’d think they’d have a bunch of academically appropriate classes to prepare you as a leader in such a ministry. Let’s see.. what “classes” or training do come to mind.. Christian Communications – that was a big deal – the power of the incident, “There I was.. .” “I know people in the Corps who haven’t moved the Word! Why? I’ll tell you why. It’s simply because they lack the ability to get things done.. .” oops, sorry – slipped back into a training session for a moment.. . Seems like it was geared to turning us all into salesmen. The research paper was a joke. lcm telling us not to try an re-invent the wheel – just stick to something basic from PFAL. Then there was the pajama party with vp showing his doggie porn video – under the pretext of preparing you for counseling – don’t want to be shocked by anything revealed in a counseling session.. . Funny, I have yet to run into a German Shepherd who wants redemption after years of service in the porn industry. Seems like a great system for the perpetuation of a parasitic organization. Another thing that chapped my hide. After I’m back out in the world, going to a professional resume company – there’s this little problem that pops up – wanting to list the Way College Indiana Campus on my resume, they check it out and find it’s NOT accredited! “You’re kidding!?! That’s not what they told me when I signed up!” Chockfull nailed it! It was just a big indoctrination process – making sure you learned how to consistently do things their way.. and that you’ve “mastered” PFAL… and uhm that you could renew your mind to anything.. become so spiritual that something is not sin to you.. . how to be the best Nazi-parent in your branch.. . hey, if you forget the training – just run back-to-back PFAL classes – that makes you a superstar in anyone’s book.

My husband heard that STFI fired John Lynn is last winter. It this true?

Loss or dulling of critical thinking skills is a recurrent theme in a number of threads. And in reading post-cult self-help type of material, it’s apparently widespread among cult survivors. The cult perpetrators reel victims in little by little, eroding their thinking skills and replacing them with cult dogma, us-and-them thinking, undermining outside sources, and gradually making the cult itself the sole point of reference – even, as in TWI’s case, the sole point of reference in interpretation of the Bible. We learned to ignore the “red flags” that would signal danger to our critical thinking skills and we learned to ignore any kind of intuition, previous thinking, boundaries taught to us by parents or by society. The secular knowledge we had acquired, some by diligent study over many years, was mocked or considered worthless. Some of us had professional skills – I know my profession was frequently derided. There were times where, if I showed any thinking that might be based on previous life or professional experiences, I would be beaten down by those who had no training or knowledge in this particular area. Many of us here can tell of similar experiences. There are examples too numerous and too silly to mention. I trained in a profession that requires quite carefully honed critical thinking skills, an ability to read and interpret, an ability to see through lies and deceptions and to ask the right questions. I knew what was in my expertise, and when to refer to others who were specialists. Why did I not see through the TWI bs? I interpreted the “red flags” as mistakes by others, or inexperience; I interpreted the mistakes in PFAL as being “slips of the tongue” in a live film recording (since some of them don’t appear in the orange book); I interpreted differences from mainstream Christian dogma as being indicative of better research (I was never convinced, for example, about the trinity; and I’d already wondered way before ever hearing of TWI why Jesus was crucified “among” not “between” the others). And mostly I really wanted to know more about God and the Bible and TWI/PFAL seemed to be an authoritative source; where I could think that the “red flags” were simply my own inexperience in this area. It is a pleasure to be “out” and able to think again, to consider other points of view, to re-think TWI dogma in the light of other Christian thinking, in the light of secular thinking … to just think. To engage brain. I feel I am still a long way from being as sharp as I used to be (age, maybe?? LOL). I’m just wondering what people have found most helpful in recovering those critical thinking skills.  Partly it’s learning of the errors in PFAL and TWI dogma.  Partly it’s reading books like “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse” and other self-help literature.  Partly it’s considering other Christian (and other) points of view.  Partly it’s discussing and reasoning with non-Christians the things that don’t seem to make sense from a non-Christian point of view – in fact, asking those questions that I’d once asked but never got answers for.  And, of course, considering other points of view right here at the Café. Because I know to some extent where you’ve come from, and yet you may now think something different. I’m not asking for self-help or what you’ve done since you got out; I’m asking what helps you develop your critical thinking skills. How have you tuned your bs antennae?

In one of the other threads, regarding the Advanced Class 2009 attendees, it shared how many attended, and how many were teens, states represented, etc. In that light, I've not heard much currently regarding the numbers of people who graduated the Way Corps for a few years. I remember a few years ago, they had about 7 people (most were couples) flanked by all the BOD and other such 'important' people. Did anyone know how many have graduated in the past 2-3 years? Did it pick up from that one time, or has it been about the same since? If it is real embarassing, they may not have included an article or picture in their ragazine. Any other #'s? Limb closures? Anyone?

Eat the fish and spit out the bones was said a lot in the early years of CES. For the first time, I could openly read and discuss books that weren't on the "approved" reading list without fear of recrimination. What I enjoyed was the discussions that took place where we could openly discuss what we were seeing in Scripture that was different from what TWI taught. I wasn't worried that I would get smacked (figuratively) for exercising private interpretation. RD, in particular, turned me on to some fabulous books. One that stands out in my mind was Hans Kung's "On Being a Christian". The summer after we left TWI for good, I sat down and read all the collaterals again with fresh eyes and a different perspective. I was making a point of keeping an open mind and was determined to check everything. It was as though I was reading new books. I came away with the feeling that I had spent years picking at nits and that it had been a waste of time. I also came away with the belief that about 70% of PFAL's "revelations" were either inconsequential or wrong. But I wasn't ready to attend a "regular" church. There was that trinity thing. We spent our time going to CES functions and attending a local home fellowship that had left TWI. The branch, which had left as a whole, was splitting over differences. We I had gotten to the place where differences in beliefs weren't grounds for exclusion. This is what I liked about CES in the beginning. Open debate and discussion was welcomed.

All, Before I left, I seem to remember TWI adding video versions of their Sunday Nights Service tapes. Did that actually start and, if so, do they still do that? JT

Today a friend of mine asked me why anyone who never heard of The Way (she was one before she met me) would care about what goes on in groups like that...are they violent? No, I said. Should I be afraid of them? she wondered. Well, that depends on a lot of things... Her questions gave me pause. She asked me whether this group or groups like it were extreme like the Islamic Extremists she sees on T.V. Well, I said, the same kind of extreme us vs. them thinking goes on, and there are some extreme ideas about theology and behavior modification techniques, and other features you find in cults. But personally I never heard violence promoted in twi, although others say they did. Some members also witnessed some gun waving (I didn't)and I experienced emotional and verbal violence. I'm still thinking of ways to answer her initial question about whether she should fear them...I personally think since she's educated about cults she shouldn't...but then, if enough extremists register to vote and gain politial power to make decisions that affect the rest of us, well...then... Anyhow, there's a web site called T.E.D. I go to for "ideas worth spreading." I came across this one about violence and thought some of you might find it pertinent to this topic. Enjoy. I tried to embed the video but that feature didn't work. Here's the link.

That would have been interesting, TheHighWay. But no... J0hn S was long gone. I used to enjoy W@lter C-mmins's articles in GMIR in the Way mag ... but they disappeared without explanation. Think he would have been an interesting teacher too. We never produced any written work or had any private study checked, unless it was to see that we had all learned our retemories and such like. The best bit for me was producing my research paper. I was given a topic by LCM and pursued it with diligence. It became really interesting, but probably not at all in the way he'd intended. I knew what he intended: but I ended up all over the OT and learned some really great stuff about what it meant to be a real leader, shepherd, carer, pastor, of God's people; and very specifically about leaders "walking the talk." The paper was quite widely read, apparently; several people who I hardly knew came up to me and said it was a good paper and they liked the bit about ... or ... (How had they seen it? Who'd showed them?) Thinking back, though, I don't recall any acknowledgment from LCM. Certainly no "bless note" or written acknowledgment. Was just too busy to think about it at the time. Perhaps he was too busy too, with preparations for RoA, but hey, who was in charge of the timetable for getting everything done? Never got it back, either. The thought just occurred to me that perhaps LCM never even read it, just hived the task off onto someone else to let him know if it seemed any good. But he personally had given me this topic and he knew my secular background. At the time, I'd wondered how much of what it might have ended up in some of his own supposed research, had I said what he'd wanted. Since earlier Corps don't seem keen on posting about what their "curriculum" was, is anybody willing to tell what their research paper topic was?

I'm right there with you on that... between the college program, marriage to a twi-for-lifer, and corps training I completely lost 1984-1990. I don't know TV shows, music, politics, news-worthy events... nothing!! Oh, hey Twinky... the corps took OT History with us (or we with them... whatever) my year in the College Program. John Sch**nh**t taught it, and it was really interesting and informative. Of course, once he wrote the paper on adultery he was OUT and there was no one who could teach it quite as well. (anyone remember his one-minute version of the OT?)

I know that it got harder and harder for them to portray a "full auditorium" as time went on, (it became especially evident on big event weekends... they went from filling up the break-out rooms, to not opening those rooms, to not opening all of the balcony, to not allowing anyone to sit inthe balcony...) but does anyone know for sure if they ever had a hard time filling up the auditorium to begin with? I thought most of the sheep (er... faithful followers) were excited to attend SNS in the new digs? (But I was a total newbie then, so I didn't pay that much attention to such things.)

The claim was made by VP "The ministry desperately needs the Word Over the World Auditorium". I beg to differ on that point. They could not fill it up for Sunday services and it was embarrasing. It became mandatory that if you lived within a certain radius (2 hour radius?) then you were expected to attend atleast one service a month. This was for Corps, but we were supposed to encourage whole branches to attend together. Of course it's not possible to force "dead wood" to attend, (oh, if only I had been dead wood) but twig coordinators, twig coordinator assistants, corps, etc. we all made the treck or as I like to call it "The Death March". Think of all the ramifications if the auditorium wouldn't have been built. We would never have had the joy of watching Craig dance around in tights

Not early, not long, three months in 1993 BUT When the motion picture Black Hawk Down came out, about Mogadishu, Somalia, and Marines being killed and all, I had no idea it was anything but fiction and was shocked to learn the incident had tragically happened, but in September, 1993, when we were shut away from "the world" learning how to line up chairs in the dining room. I felt terribly cheated; I could have prayed for those people, that situation, the families, my country had I known. And it made it seem like an occurrence of such magnitude was belittled in the eyes of the Powers That Be; the awful possibility of someone hiding a bottle of Jack Daniel's in the trunk of their car and sneaking off for a snort at midnight was much more important. I know I'm not wording this very well; I hope some of you understand. I guess some of it was I didn't realize at the time how totally cut off from everything and everyone we were, as I was immersed in culture shock, fearful, and harassed constantly. WG

I remember someone, maybe Ralph D., stating that VPW had adamantly stated his name was never to place on anything at least while he was living. "So I guess he meant 'over my dead body!'" this individual joked. So it gets built, VPW dies, and there goes his name on the building! WG

Yeah, they still do that.. They had VHS for a little while, and now have it on DVD... It must be for those who think there must be some action missing from that mono-toned reading, erm.. I mean teaching.. Must be a joy to watch the person reading it in real color!! And all those 70-80s style step moves..

something like that. I read the article last week by the guy who made this map. The article is HERE My congratulations to the folks of Glad Valley South Dakota.. One day Im gonna go there to buy a burger at their local diner just to support them

Even when I was "in" most folk in TWI had no concept of International Outreach. They had no idea where most other countries were. There was a map of the world inset into some oval table in the Auditorium - with some countries not even shown even though there was space to put them. Hello, hello! There is a world outside the USA, and it's not just for dropping bombs on, either. The outreach model demanded by TWI didn't really work overseas (come to that, it wasn't so effective in the US, either). Door-knockers and people accosting potential recruits in shopping malls: not quite the European thing. Most of Europe was "written off" by VPW and/or LCM as being "spiritually dark" because they weren't interested in the high-pressure sales techniques used by TWI. Guam was counted as an international outreach country but it was really only noticed because US personnel were stationed over there. Anyway, back to the point: there are still some Way-affiliated fellowships in other countries. There is also a not insignificant number of splinter groups led by WC or sometimes not even WC. There's quite a brisk "outreach" in hooking these up together, but as individual fellowships or ministries. There is a surprisingly high number of Wayfers or exWayfers in most European countries; also in some African countries. Some Europeans have set up fellowships or ministries. Some have gone back to mainstream churches.

"Cults attract intelligent, idealistic, ambitious people who are led to believe they are working for a greater good." --------Jim Bergin Here's an interesting clip. It's a bit lengthy but worth watching (IMO) CULT RECOVERY 101

This stuff is like an invasive weed. Simply leaving the group, physically, does little to deal with the tangle mess of deep rooted beliefs

Great posts penworks, taxicab & skyrider – just wanted to lump these altogether in one post since my mind has been using them as a springboard to reflect on my own experience in both entering & exiting TWI. At 21, I was definitely in a transition period – not only as a young man venturing out into the world but also looking for something more – perhaps the old “meaning of life” thing as skyrider put it. My life was in a state of flux – having dropped out of college [wondering how useful a bachelor of fine arts degree would be] – and invited to a twig by a new girlfriend. Those folks seemed to have everything I wanted – plus a seemingly sure-fire way of getting it quickly – PFAL. I’ll get back to this point in a minute. What struck me the most in the articulate posts of penworks & taxicab is the overwhelming assault TWI mounted to one’s intellect. It was a learned-helplessness – I lost confidence in my own thinking skills. This is perhaps one of the greatest obstacles to overcome whenever a TWI follower entertains the idea of leaving. That’s what kept me in. Anytime a situation or thought would challenge my TWI mindset – it was a lot easier to squelch the issue OF MY OWN VOLITION – than to analyze it as a normal person would without their [TWI’s] insidious restraints. I tend to think if I would have kept to my fearless sense of adventure in checking out new things and a desire to analyze how things work [which was my nature BEFORE TWI] I probably would have blown thru TWI rather quickly ..alas. Getting back to where I was going with my search or spiritual journey – whatever you want to call it – being a Christian ever since I can remember as a little boy and reflecting on my TWI days – I’m now of the opinion that one’s journey should be self-directed. I think that’s the way our minds were designed to develop and not atrophy. At least that’s the way I see it thru my “seasoned” faith or wherever I’m at now spiritually I don’t know - but reading Proverbs 2 after thinking over this thread, I was struck by the recommendation that WE are to search for wisdom, understanding, and discernment. I understand that to mean it should be a personal mission – a self-directed search, if you will. Looking for shortcuts & secret formulas compiled in a little orange PFAL book is sheer stupidity, wishful thinking & maybe just plain laziness. In TWI - I adopted their mission - my search was directed by their agenda and I analyzed things according to their standards. I think if I would have followed Proverbs’ advice it might have kept me out of TWI or at least shortened my stay there – going by Proverbs 2:10-12 For wisdom will enter your heart and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul; discretion will guard you, understanding will watch over you, to deliver you from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perverse things.

Thanks and warmest regards for some of your replies. To any of the former TWI people who are atheists: I was just trying to get you to say what you know and not know what you say. No offense intended. I started a new thread in Doctrinal Section on a book called The Crucible of Creation by Morris. I read tons and tons of stuff on Darwinism. Just trying to comply with your requests years ago to be informed when I speak.

I think we called them "deadwood". Gotta prune the deadwood from time to time to make room for new growth..

I took his class about 12 years ago. And I firmly believe his class to be the greatest cure of insomnia in the world today.

I have a letter that VP sent out concerning the Auditorium. Unfortunately it's not dated. To You My Power for Abundant Living Grad: My blessing and greetings to you in the wonderful name of our living lord and savior, Jesus Christ, who always causes us to triumph when we do God's will according to God's Word. Many of our people whose lives were blessed and so wonderfully changed in my class on Power for Abundant Living have become successful and blessed in many different ways. But, in the dollars and cents category and in other material things, even including health, the Adversary has continued stealing from our people. Apparently the people God has given me believe most things I teach them from the Word; but they do not really believe the truth regarding their money, their dollar and cents incomes, and tithing. I know the major reason WHY Way believers have financial difficulties and can tell you that they have neglected to put into practice the basic principle starting towards abundance, and that is tithing. At the Word in Business and Profession Conference I taught that the only way whereby a believer can continuously manifest a more than abundant life is by believing God, His Word, and by practicing more than tithing. etc......................... The enclosure with this letter is a short work on the integrity and accuracy of God's Word that will dispel any believer's ignorance or wrong teaching and open God's floodgates of heaven, if practiced. Every believer is responsible to decide for himself whether to live his life in accordance with God's Word or not. Why don't you just try it? Give God an opportunity to prove it to you. Keep good financial records and you'll see. etc....................................... Bless you real good. Faithfully, In His service, Victor Paul Wierwille P.S. The ministry desperately needs the Word Over the World Auditorium. As every believer is instructed in God's Word to speak much in tongues in order to remain spiritually sharp, so the abundant sharing, beyond the tithe, will take care of a lot of financial, material, and physical opportunities. If you are parcticing abundant sharing, which begins beyond the tithe, I want to encourage you to continue to make that abundant sharing available to the Word Over the World Auditorium. As of this week, the Board of Trustees has decided to take 15 percent (a tithe would be 10 percent) of all monies that are shared in the horns of plenty around the country weekly and transfer that 15 percent to the Word Over the World Auditorium fund. Please pardon any spelling errors. I can post the teaching at a later date if there's an interest. GIVING AND RECEIVING (Not Law-But Grace) To make a long story short............. "Any born-again believer who does not operate the principle of abundant sharing keeps God from blessing him to the fullest extent and allows the Adversary to steal more and more".

OK Maybe I'm remembering this thing wrong. Maybe it was just The Word Over The World Auditorium. I'm not sure. I do know, though, that they were very adamant it was never, ever to be abbreviated or referred to using acronyms.

Twinky... wow, you pretty much encapsulated my years of in-rez corps training! Although we did have some (minimal) training on people-handling skills, it was all based on the Dale Carnegie materials which were more about getting people to talk to you and about making a sale. NOT about how to genuinely listen to a person's problems and counsel them! And I do believe we also received a brief overview on how TWI felt we should conduct a wedding, funeral, baby dedication, etc. Not really much help when it came time to actually perform one of these important ceremonies!! I guess I should consider myself fortunate in that I also did the College Program when it was in full swing at Emporia. We did have classes on OT History, NT History, Early Church History, One God, Orientalisms, Counseling, etc. And even though the instructors were Way Corps many of them were not necessarily twi-flunkies. They came in off the field with a lot of energy and many of them were genuinely good teachers. We read a LOT of materials, wrote a LOT of papers, took a LOT of tests, and did a LOT of discussion activities. Obviously there was also a lot of twi indoctrination happening on campus and in class but the College Program was aimed at the non-corps crowd so it had a whole different feel to it. A lot less pressure to conform. A lot more fun. And of course, we were allowed to come and go on campus as we pleased. Since I went in the corps during the last half of the fog years, our training was a mixed up jumble of "keep everything the same" and "fall back on what Vic did" the first year, and "purge the household" and "don't put new wine into old wineskins" the last year. But while the "feel" was very very different between those two years, the basic curriculum was exactly as you have described it. I remember thinking a few times that I was expecting a lot more "in depth" training than I was getting, and trying to make myself focus on the "spiritual" side of the things we were doing. Like, how did the leadership know when to push us and when to let up and throw a dance? Yeah, I really thought they were walking by the spirit and I was going to somehow learn how to do that by paying close attention. Man, what a profound waste of time, money, energy, youth, and enthusiasm that all was!!!!!! (edited for typos)

There never was a great deal of substance taught in the Corps training. The first 5 years were inception years, no curriculum, great deal of contact with VP, work / study program like you had. The second decade was Emporia years - when they were spinning up the College program they put together actual classes with a syllabus and teacher. Teachers had to have a degree and be a Corps grad - there were probably less than 20 faculty. This was when there were even defined classes with grades. I don't think there were any PhD teachers of classes - Don W was the only one I'm aware of. The third decade was fog year recovery decade - this was when you went thru the family Corps it appears. LCM driven. There were a few unofficial classes during that time - history, Greek, public speaking. Little one to two day seminar types of things - song leading, etiquette, firearms safety. Most recent training follows a similar course but the minutae is focused on. For example, 30 hours of working on a personal incident 1 on 1. To produce the refined but boring that is the mark of this administration of TWI leaders. All in all, the program really wasn't to educate. It was to break down and indoctrinate. To build unquestioning loyalty to an organization and group of people (Directors). To set up a pecking order in an organization. And to place graduates on a hamster wheel of climbing over one another for position and title. Sure there were benefits to doing it - discipline, habits, reading the Bible consistently, praying consistently. It actually was an ingenious scam. The hook was the idea that you could build Marine-Corps-like commitment to God. The actuality was that they built Marine-Corps-like commitment to man. And those men, (and women), were less than stellar examples of a Christian life, to put it mildly.

I don't recall ever seeing much change in a living wayfer over time. If, in 30 years, a person or persons remain essentially the same, I think it's fairly safe to assume they will remain on that path. "the "mindset" we were all admonished to subscribe to has, itself, evolved and changed" - not sure what you mean here. twi has always (in my short lifetime)had one mindset of having "the truth", being right, having "it" . . . all reasoning, actions, propaganda, excuses etc. change to protect that, but the core "mindset" remains the same.

True story I am a witness to.... Stay at home mom (4 children) and homemaker tells husband about end of summer party their friends are having. Let's go she says. Everyone is getting a babysitter. It has been a while since we went out and did anything together just you and me. He says I just want to stay home this weekend. Then he says...... Do you have any idea what it is like to work a 60 hour week????

Early into this rediscovery process RD and SP made their exit. Not much was said by JAL other than lamenting the schism. MG was becoming more involved, but he hadn't moved north yet. I was learning a lot more about JAL and PL. She was running the office, which was a sun room off the back of the house. Copies of old unitarian books were being sold and connections with other non-trinitarian groups were forming; most notably Anthony Buzzard's group. He had published a fascinating little booklet that was the pre-cursor to his "self inflicted wound" book. CES was participating in round tables with other Christian organizations. JAL spent hours on the phone connecting with people who had exited TWI. There was a mailing list of over 5000 people. In the meantime, Momentus was making an appearance even as marriages were breaking up. Momentus revealed some of the uglier aspects of TWI, including its systematic grooming of children (girls in particular) for sexual abuse and what that did to the kids. By this time I was helping out in the home office with computer stuff as a volunteer. I assisted in helping move and convert the data from Mac to PC. That brings me to one of the more disturbing situations for me. I had not been through Momentus. I was pretty wary about the whole thing, but what I experienced one evening pretty much nailed the coffin shut on whether or not I would go through a weekend. I had been testing the data transfer and conversions and was ready to move it and go live. This was a several hour job. I needed to do this when JAL was out of town. That day happened to be when a guest/roommate who also happened to be a Momentus trainer was at the house and was going to be using the house to host a party for his wife. The guests included a number of Momentus grads and JAL's parents. So my car gets closed in and I can't leave to get anything to eat. Here I was at the site of this elaborate party where people are feasting on New York Strip steaks and I can't get out to go to Hardee's to pick up a burger. It's been 12 hours since I've had anything to eat and I'm getting a bit cranky. So somebody comes in after everyone's eaten and after everyone's been served the cake and offers me a piece of cake. I explained that I hadn't eaten all day, but the last thing I needed was cake. I needed real food. Then I was offered some leftovers. I was mad. I was stunned. I was heartbroken. In the spirit of all this open communication and iron sharpening iron stuff, I let the guy know (whose name escapes me right now) that I was perturbed by his lack of manners. I told him that he knew I had been working all day with only bathroom breaks. He knew I hadn't had anything to eat. He knew I was working for free. He knew I couldn't get out because of the parking. Yet he never offered me a bite to eat. His excuse? He didn't know if there would be enough for the guests. I was appalled at his excuse and I told him so. The idea that he could open his mouth, say that, and believe it on any level was astounding to me. I told him that if this kind of thinking is what Momentus is all about, I didn't want any part of it. I told him that I gotten enough of that attitude in TWI from WC people. As a sidebar, Momentus was particularly insidious for people who had departed TWI because it created a dynamic similar to the name tag hierarchy in TWI. It created an immediate tension between the "best thing since sliced bread" crowd and the "I'd rather not" group. So my question about Momentus was what good was this to CES; to the people who were supporting CES? What part of this is fish and what part is bones? I've never gotten a straight answer on that one.