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I disagree. Here's why. I understand how some people may think The Way was good “in the old days” and somehow “got off track” in later years. But I take issue with this line of thinking. I call it deluded nostalgia: a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to or of some past period or irrecoverable condition. What exactly is that condition people are craving? I was involved from 1971-1987 and I don’t crave any of it. But I figure I’d pitch in my two cents here. Frankly, I think it appears to be nostalgia for small fellowships with rock music or old hymns “corrected to be accurate” with Way doctrine, simple teachings (I guess), and camaraderie with others who thought like we did, and learning “what the Bible says.” On the surface, these things seem fairly harmless. But when I really think about the “old TWI days,” and these activities, I come up with some concerns: 1. The simplistic idealism that we could save the world with cut and dry Bible answers 2. The lack of mature dealings in the world. I was addressed as a child and kept from growing up while in the Corps and afterwards, 3. The gross neglect of my critical thinking faculty 4. The fact we were supposed to sell the PFAL class to people in order for VP to approve of our lives 5. The issue of whether we were “helping people” by using tools belonging to VP’s brand of fundamentalism 6. As far as I know, some still think they helped people with “the Word.” But what exactly is “The Word?” It’s very vague to me. My understanding is that when a phrase is used, there’s a definition for it somewhere. I don’t know of one for “The Word.” It is a phrase thrown around as if we all know what it means. This reminds me of the fairytale about the Emperor’s new clothes. The fact was: Emperor was not wearing any clothes. I don’t think anyone knows what The Word is. 7. Suffice it to say here, the usual explanation by TWI people and former TWI people for what “The Word” is goes something like this: you have to “use certain keys to research to discover what the original Word was.” Whose keys to research? How come we so readily accepted VP’s which he took from various other people who were fundamentalists? If it were so simple to know “The Word,” how come so many diverse interpretations persist? But back to the good old days. Let’s say the “good old Way days” were good after all, although this is hard for me to fathom. What exactly is being referred to by this claim? IMO, VP created some sense of community with some people for awhile, but what was that based upon? The way I see it, it was based on an agreement that VP’s teachings were God’s Word, on the commitment to the common cause of VP’s delusion of “moving The Word over the World,” and on a simple love for other people - as long as they obeyed what VP said was The Word. If they didn’t, at the very least they were not as spiritual as we were; at the very worst they were “born of the seed of the devil.” Let’s not forget, however, that this conditional camaraderie came at a price: It was held together by a patriarchal system fraught with deception and power struggles, not to mention rampant sexual, fiscal, and emotional abuse. In my view, wishing for “the good old days of The Way” denies the nature of the group itself – a fundamentalist, narrow-minded, anti-Christian movement. Why do I say it is anti-Christian? Because people were used as a means to an end. What was the end? Believe that what VP taught was the truth. Evangelize. Sell PFAL classes. Behave according to what The Way leadership dictated. Nostalgia for the old days also seems to deny the fact that from its inception, the cult was engineered by V.P. Wierwille, who claimed, like Paul in the New Testament, that he heard an audible voice from a monotheistic God adopted from another culture from thousands of years ago (or the voice of Jesus, as in Paul’s case) that no one else heard. This raises all sorts of issues too complex to get into here I think. While I met many good people whose kindness made me feel loved, during my TWI years, VP’s teachings, such as telling me I was “more than a conqueror” did not help me resolve problems I brought into The Way with me. For awhile, it engendered a positive attitude in me but it did not produce a healthy self image or tolerance, understanding and compassion for others who might not agree with what I believed. I think the doctrines in many instances only instilled a good deal of denial about myself, the good in the world, other cultures, and denial about what it means to be human. When I first took PFAL, at 18 years old, I certainly was gullible to The Way’s “answers” but the human brain is not even fully developed until 23 or 24 years old so that’s part of this scenario, too. But I also readily admit that I consciously turned a deaf ear to people who warned me not to get involved. Not only did I make grave errors in judgment when getting involved with TWI, but I was seduced by big fat claims about the nature of the system I was in. It claimed to be a biblical research ministry but it is extreme fundamentalism. I suggest more of us get informed not only about how cults function but what fundamentalism is and the history of its development. It’s not only a way of interpreting the bible but a way of existing in the world.

Time and time again I have been amazed at the similarities between my former splinter group and TWI. Many of my experiences as a part of River Road Fellowship have paralleled many of the abusive, twisted and cruel practices many of you have had in TWI. But this thread is not about TWI, it is about the current happenings in my former splinter group and the events currently going down. Now while I can not guarantee any of you as to exacting parallels between TWI history and RRF history I think many of you may be able to relate to what my old abusers and my old friends are going through. From time to time I will update this thread so that if any of you happen to come across any of these folks by chance, you may know where to direct them or what they need. MY FORMER SPLINTER GROUP IS BREAKING UP. But even though my friends among the locals see things, everybody that is a part of RRF is being relatively tight lipped, according to my friends that is. Some folks are going back to Pennsylvania, where Victor Barnard himself recruited them in order to "stand on God's Word" with him until Christ returns. I do not know if this includes the very man who told me to "F" my then recently deceased Grandmother in a fit of rage or not, the very same one who told me, "You are not welcome back in fellowship until you resolve this shameful situation" on the very day he moved my wife and one year old child out of my house. I do not know if this includes another man who suffered his wife telling him that Victor Barnard was the "true" father of his four daughters, the very one whose oldest daughter signified her lifetime commitment to Victor Barnard by saying in fellowship, "I'm married to the Christ in Victor." I heard that the man who fired me from my job a couple of days after they moved my wife and child out of my house is moving to Alaska and is sending his younger son to college. The thing is I will never forget how this slime-ball canned me with a smile and a handshake. It would be much better for him if God doesn't pay him back for the damage he did to my life and family. His oldest daughter was the first of the ten young girls who made lifetime commitments to Barnard, yeah, good luck keeping your family together Randy. I am most concerned for the "Ten Maidens" as they were called. These girls were led to make lifetime commitments to Barnard while they were still in their teens, or their twenties. One of them came from Brazil and in order to stay in the country RRF fellowship had to tell the INS that she was a in a religious cloister similar to a convent. Her commitment was to remain celibate and loyal to Barnard. There are many people who I counted as friends still in RRF the last I heard. And I have heard from a couple of reliable sources that some people are moving to Alaska, Pennsylvania, and Florida so far. And both of these two thought that some people were staying around Finlayson, Mn. too. And both of them said that for all the foreclosures on property, auctions, and moving going on with RRF folks that everybody is being tight lipped about what really is going on, no surprise to me. I will update this as I find out more, just in case it may help a few get help who are leaving River Road Fellowship. (added in editing) I guess Christ did not come back in 1997, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2007, uh er.....make that 2011...yeah right. Barnard is batting ZERO so far. I guess they were not attacked by the government or the locals as Barnard predicted in 2001. I feel for the many sacrifices people made in order to be with Barnard, including....I am not making this up.....abortion. At least one couple was being pressured into giving up their son for adoption too.

We made it through last nights storms fine--a little water coming into the the wals around and the room below the fireplace, lost power for awhile as well as phones/cable, but we're fine. Lots of roads are blocked or washed out, may have trouble getting around for a few days, but we're still okay. How are the rest of ya? Mikey? Your area got hit pretty hard too--are you and family safe? Other Georgians? Dot? Robes? Who am I missing? Raise yer hands and let us know you're okay, please?

NO... this is significantly different from what those who wanted in but weren't allowed in either experienced or didn't experience. Your "I told you so" (yes, you did communicate that) completely misses the point. But I don't care one way or the other. Of course, most of US were those inexperienced kids when we first became followers of wierwille...

I've said it before (many times), ad nauseum, but the "Good 'ol days" mindset really does ignore lotsa issues. I.E. - abandoned educations, careers derailed, alienated family members (who did NOTHING to deserve such treatment), friendships destroyed, and purloined life in general. And all of that in exchange for adoption of - when viewed in retrospect - really childish, trivial, even downright silly superstitions. For all the pomp and circumstance of V.P. and Co., their belief system had no depth whatsoever. "Believing will make it so" is pretty tepid gruel to base one's life on. There was a real reason why there were so few mature adults that bought into WayWorld dogma. A modicum of wisdom was all that was needed to decern the B.S. It really was pretty obvious to most anyone but inexperienced kids. And, gee, the "WayCorps Only, Super-Exclusive, Blessed Cream-o-the-crop" Website is experiencing a bit of dissention within it's ranks? SHOCKED! SHOCKED I say!

Penworks, thanks again for posting this. I too get tired of hearing people laud those times as so fun filled, ever forgetting the errors on which it was based. The sad thing to me is they continue in those errors, refusing to correct them in their own lives. Nothing has changed for them, nothing has imnproved, and they live forever in Egypt (De- Nile). Your words were (there) and are (here) a refreshing inspiration.

Everyone dies eventually.

Thanks for that information. I go pretty far back with the family I asked about, and I am sorry, but not shocked, to hear about it.

:wub: Thank you shellon..... But as with TWI, I fear Barnard has done everything he can to try to manage this situation somehow. He is a very persistent bird.

Consistent with whatever the view was AT THAT TIME, perhaps. Otherwise, the emotional swings of the MOG seemed to be most important. And they were certainly not always consistent. JT

Yes, Jean was used as an example of being one with Barnard in loyalty as her "True Man" as opposed to the "fleshy husband." His oldest daughter was one of the ten maidens. He thought to hamstring me while I was there for quite some time too. (edited for grammar)

What a j@ck@$$. It used to be that you could ask people to give you "Chapter and Verse". Now with all the power hungry little mongrels they don't listen to scripture and the only importance is kissing the foot of the next one up the ladder in the food chain to preserve their little power base. Now the doctrine doesn't even have to be remotely Christian based or scripturally backed as long as the right authority supports it. That said I can understand and appreciate your situation. Standing up to false authority and extracting yourself from under it with your family and sanity intact is a tall order...

That is the very reason twi fell apart.Never gave anything back,give and it shall be given unto you? Twi never practiced that,People had needs,never met.

Things were best when lcm was in charge, imo. His reign didn't require as much thought or awareness to see the nonsense. rfr is a challenge for some.