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I started a thread awhile ago about the "splinter business"...I think these guys are lazy lowlifes who have avoided finding a "real" job in favor of following their "fadder in da werd"...they set themselves up with a cushy existance at the expense of the naive and the gullible. Like Leonard Cohen wrote..."...everybody wants a box of chocolates and a long stem rose..." These c** k suckers take advantage of a person's quest and desire to know God by feeding them their filthy doctrines of "send me your money"...Every last one of them can kiss my arse.

King Okus... That's perfect!! Chockfull, Very well put. Krys, From what I have read and understood here, your DIL was/is emotionally traumatized. I doubt anyone ever gets over something like this ... they just have to learn to cope with it and hopefully get some serious help. She was so used, yet probably believed she was 'loved' by these things we called MOGS. When the whole thing came crashing down, what she perceived as being real was suddenly a 'fairy tale' and having probably believed she was the princess in that fairy tale, suddenly the tables were turned and she became the wicked witch and told go home. It is no wonder to me that she behaved the way she did when she was with you that short time before departing for the 'bus' guy.

Rest assured, under the facade of niceness and propriety of the current twi, all things are just as rotten as before. It just looks nicer on the surface. I don't know about you all, but I would rather deal with the evil that is in your face than the sneaky evil that looks pretty on the outside. Reminds me of Little Red Riding Hood - she knew what the wolf was when he was out in the woods, but when he was dressed up like her grandma, it was a lot harder to see she was looking at a predator.

Ten years ago, in early July of 1998........the advanced class was running at twi's hq. To help oversee the new students, inresidence corps were brought in from camp gunnison as branch coordinators. As twi events go, this one had all the same standard procedures and pecking order as usual. Except for one glitch........ At this event, martindale set his sights on a corps woman, a married woman whose husband and children were back at camp gunnison, and this sexual encounter brought extreme confusion, hurt, and emotional distraught to this corps woman. As this *damage* spilled over to her corps brother, who took it upon himself to personally CONFRONT CRAIG.......the damage control liasons of twi, the gun-totting guys, were unleashed to get this corps guy packing and on a bus within the hour. Others know much more of these details than me.......but it later involved a Colorado Court Case. As the phones began ringing.....and word spread of this sexcapade involving martindale and this married corps woman, it left little doubt that THINGS WERE ROTTEN AT THE WAY INTERNATIONAL. For indeed, some of us truly believed that martindale and howard and don were sincerely committed to *cleaning up the way international* and taking this *prevailing word* (cough, cough) to all who wanted deliverance. Like his predecessor wierwille, here martindale had "a secret life of lust" and was preying on the young corps women......a married woman, no less. MY FUTURE CHANGED.......with the knowledge of this!!!!! IT WAS TIME TO LEAVE TWI. Sure, I heard Cgeer's poop paper back in the day (of the power grab) .......but honestly, it was filled with SO MUCH pomp and arrogance of cgeer's "wisdom and accomplishments" that I could barely hear what he was saying. And then, with Schoenhxxt's adultery paper, the firings, the shenanigans of geer's now-you-see-me-now-you-don't.........I just wasn't ready to "jump ship" when that loyalty letter came out. WHY NOW?? WHY THE CHANGE??.............Well, for one thing, I was ten years older and had plenty of time to assimilate the geer-martindale-offshoots splintering and all that. Plus, the homo purge and the micro-management and the "promised land of the prevailing word" brought MORE and MORE LEGALISM INTO TWI. So, when this martindale sexcapade event spilled out.....at the advanced class, no less.......with a MARRIED corps woman......and hearing subsequent information from others as this information opened insider information of twi......THE SCALES FELL FROM MY EYES. So.............TEN YEARS LATER, what have I learned. Well.....Martindale was ousted two years after I left -- in 2000. And, Rosalie has done her best to squelch any information or anyone who want to resolve twi's dark issues. Plus, without a charismatic leader anymore........twi has resorted to *bringing back from the dead wierwille-idolatry and the over-the-top adulation of emeritus trustees. The Multi-Level Marketing administration is firmly in place and "business as usual" has gained residency once again.......as well as the "serf system," the corps program. Notwithstanding that twi's sunday teachings are SO BORING, AND DULL, AND READ FROM THE LECTURN each week........imo, it gives rock-solid proof that the twi religion is dead. Looking at life......TEN YEARS LATER......and life is so very good. Fresh air and skying high. skyrider

That's ok, I don't know how to post a link but I can quote. HAHAHAHAHA

Sometimes when the wayfers or any other group's followers boldly and aggresively shove their supposed forgiveness in my face while still unrepentant stirs up a little emotion. Sometimes it is sorrow for them, sometimes it is frustration and anger. But having been a wayfer once it is painful to recall the times that I did the very same thing while deceiving myself into thinking that claiming my forgiveness was independent of having a real change of heart because of some of the TWI doctrines and practises mixed in with my own human failings......sigh. (edited for grammar and clarity)

Personally I have observed that people put up with things that they don't like, or are even harmful to them because they balance the perceived benefits against the perceived downside. People put up with jobs that they don't like because they need the insurance; with abusive spouses because they don't believe they can support their kids alone; with high taxes because they send the kids to a "good" school. People stay involved in TWI as long as the benefits appear to outweigh the problems. It doesn't matter that the "benefits" may appear to us who are outside the system to be composed of equal parts wishful thinking and b^ll$h!t, if they think that they are getting "The Word" like it hasn't been taught since the First Century, what's a little yelling and spitting? If they think that their spouse will leave them, what's a little false doctrine? People will put up with a lot if they think that they're getting something out of it.

All the contents of this thread (Thank you Skyrider and Krys especially) along with this one post (Thank you now I see) I think explains more of the TWI breakups than anything I have ever read. How can perverted, twisted folks like very top TWI leadership do anything else besides see the benefits of scattering like rats and keeping TWI splinters seperated and at odds with each other. @#$%^&*! Yeah TWI splinters, just keep your lasciviousness hidden until the day the Lord rewards you all as promised, you bastards. But in the meantime, I am very thankfull that heart rending stories like this can be read by all. At least it can help to snap some out of the flames, I hope. THANK YOU GREASESPOT CAFE! (a little added for clarity)

Well the fact that they stay may be influenced by the fact that TWI is the one that taught them the values they hold to. Rosie Frankenspinmeister!?

This is all that I know Waylaid. LCM was accused of adultery with a married woman and this proved to be a disruption. And considering how TWI has either spun things or diligently hid them it seems it would take a trustworthy ex-innie to expound on the events. I was not there and am not even an advanced class grad, but I do think it is most likely that I am better offf for never taking the advanced class. Imagine, TWI was suppose to teach people how the father of lies works. I have learned more by learning how TWI operates than anything they ever taught in the class I'm betting.

HCW - Thanks for sharing that. Great memories. Still, has anyone answered the question about the Advanced Class 98 debacle? What was that all about?

I'd almost swear the guy on the left is humming to the tune.. *Beautiful Ohio, where the golden brain...*

The reference I made was regarding The Way of Ohio Limb HQ.

Yup, saw the auditorium too. Drove down Wierwille Rd., turned left on Shelby County Rd. Could hardly believe what I was seeing so I turned around & came back for a double take. I actually stopped for a few moments & looked back into the trailer park.... Looks like a "trailer park." They took the "Victor Paul Wierwille" off of the auditorium sign. Actually renamed the building. Speaks so loudly to their current intentions, I'd say... how much "kinder & gentler" is that? The sign looks unkempt, actually shocking, put me in mind of one of those doomsday scenario movies. The building looks, more dreary than I remember. It had an "abandoned" feel to it - was a bit weird, especially seeing as they still use it. Your question brings back memories.... I actually did the design for the sign; helped build that building, literally, pounded a few nails, swept some construction dust, stuff like that. Part of my job was to document the building project from the designs on paper, through the groundbreaking and every construction phase. Even stopped in on the architects regularly & threw my two cents in on their design plans (it was really only work about 2 cents :-). We put all of the best the ministry had to offer into that building. The best architectural designers available worked with the best auditorium design consultants in the country to meet the specs that we'd come up with. The building was to be the "perfect" place to speak God's Word from. Decades of experiences to draw from; doing SNS services in the BRC and countless venues, meeting rooms, convention centers & the like around the country and other parts of the world really helped. ... Not to mention years of doing Way Productions everywhere from the smallest living room to mansions, parks, every type of auditorium one could think of, to the BRC; and countless "Saturday Night Doo's" at that little church in New Bremen - - "The Way Cultural Center." We put everything we had collectively learned about putting on a production, years of likes & dislikes of every place we'd been along with (paid) consultation from some of the best minds in the "auditorium building," building business into that place. I looked at it sort of like the grace administration's, our 20th century, version of "the temple." TWi called in many of the best artisans in the ministry to decorate it. We even used this theory of "color/music harmony" we'd been working on for years (the paintings in the lunch room at Emporia were earlier ventures into it) to come up with the color schemes, particularly in the main auditorium. From the wood from the hand carved auditorium doors, to the huge map in the lobby, to the painting of VPW, etc. everything in there had specific biblical/scriptural significance. Even VP's pose in the picture to the "Timothy" statue in the lobby - - all of it was done with great care by supposedly, our absolute best artisans in each field required for the building. It was thrilling, felt like Old Testament stuff coming to life. There was a constant flow of people in from the field to "work on the auditorium." For it to be "the best" the best worked on it. Eg: The main auditorium was designed acoustically by some sound expert dude, so that a person could stand at the lecturn and need not be amplified for the furthest person in the highest seat in the balcony to hear him. It originally had a wireless headphone system installed so that people attending who needed translation could sit anywhere w/o having to plug in headphones. "Not one bad seat in the house" was VP's directive for the design. The stage is deep enough and wide enough that "any" traveling broadway show could be produced there. They built it with the concept in mind that we could, and would approach major touring acts of any type to have them add New Knoxville, Ohio (!???!) as a stop on their tour. We could offer them "the finest auditorium facility between New York & Chicago" and a full house for every performance. While we were building it, we did special "Saturday Doo's" for local executives, ViP's, & honored guests, etc. (those were some times when I'd drive VP & his guests in his Lincoln) - - they'd sometimes get a classy dinner & show thing where some of the New York, Broadway folk, Branded, (when they were at their best), etc. came in to do some really great Way Prod performances. We did multimedia, live tapings of the TV Show (High Country Caravan)- all this great stuff leading up to the grand opening of the "Victor Paul Wierwille Word Over The World Auditorium." VP sold community leaders on the idea that TWI would get world class performers & shows that they would normally have to fly or drive to some big city (like Chicago) to see... we'd get them right here in their own back yard. That went a long way towards improving community relations. In his last few years of vitality, the auditorium was his last big hurrah. Local people really liked the shows, sometimes there were more locals there than staff folk. Then VP got sick, faded away & LCM took over. After that we got LCM and "Athletes of the Spirit." HQ was abuzz w/ auditorium this & that, it seemed like forever. It was exciting to be a part of it, it was the "next HUGE ministry thing" the new centerpiece of TWi... the "WOW Auditorium." I was caught up in what it represented, this huge undertaking an amalgamation of all the best we, the ministry's artisans had to offer. Once it opened WayProd did a couple of Saturday Night Doo's leading up to to the grand opening it seemed like a "warm up" of sorts & build up of our production building chops in the new building. One show in particular called something like "PFAL, Our Life-Style" was this HUGE HIT! EVERYONE who saw it absolutely LOVED it! That show was "squashed (at the trustee level) like a fat bug on a windshield" and swept under the rug "quicker than a greased pig in a barrel of hog fat." (reference intended) After maybe like, ONE performance it was GONE. All who were in it were told not to speak of it. No tapes were ever shown of it & it became firmly entrenched in HQ's "more than abundant" rumor mill. Rumor had it that Craig didn't like it because it took away focus from "Athletes." Deeper rumor was that it was so good that it made "Athletes" look like "Muppets on Amateur Hour." At that time we had some really heavy hittin' performers in Way Productions. K@n McC@w was running WProd @ that time & he's a musical genius "par excellance." Scuttlebutt on the show was that it was "one of the most spiritually right on things we'd ever done." Further rumor was that K@n had put together a SUPERB show worthy of all the WOW Aud. hype & LCM was jealous cause "K@n's show was better than his." I don't know for sure, I didn't see it. What does all this have to do w/ the topic "We Bumped into a Lifer?" WE WERE ALL LIFERS. Those of us who put our lives, heart & soul into that auditorium, pretty much to a man - - were "Lifers." Myself included. I moved to New Knoxville, Ohio after graduating the 11th Way Corps with absolutely NO intention of ever living anywhere else. Geez. I went INTO the 11th WC with full intent to become a lifer @ HQ. I felt I was a "God Inspired Professional" and was willing to devote my life & God given talents to further God's purposes. You know, the ol' utmost for His highest thing, servin' at "the root." At times I felt I'd "died & gone to heaven on earth" during the years I worked @ HQ. I worked tirelessly: many times round the clock, developing myself spiritually & professionally (I even pulled a 'B' in GREEK class in the Corps!) so I could honestly BE world class. My greatest desire, professionally, was to be able to put our publications up against ANY publication in the world and have them be "on par w/ the BEST." We actually did it. I was about 15 or 16 years old, an aspiring art student when I saw the "America Awakes" airbrushed album cover art. Excited, I asked David Craley (the Way Mag editor) at some ministry function, "Who did the cover art?" He told me the guy's name and that he was an unbeliever they hired because we didn't have anybody in the ministry who could do that kind of work at that level of quality. I said. "Then I'll do it." I finished high school, went to & graduated art school & studied under a world famous airbrush artist (who just "happened" to teach at the school I chose). Then went WOW at Mr. Craley's suggestion, came to HQ to work in Way Publications & now have illustrated more Way Mag Covers than anyone in TWI history (pre POP, as far as I know). We actually did it. The Way Mag won secular awards. Our printer won printing industry awards for its printing quality. We then decided to "bring the mag home" and print it ourselves in the OSC. In a year, we went from a one-color duplication shop to become rated as one of the "Top 100 In-Plant Printing" 'four-color plus' operations in the country. When we put our stuff up against the best secular stuff, we won awards. I married a local NK girl, bought a little house on an acre of land in the country & settled in to raise family. My plan was to be a "lifer" doing "artwork for God & His Minisrty." Many, many of us who worked @ HQ late '70s through the early 80's were there "for life." That was when the term "lifer" proliferated. Then it all fell apart, even as we were building it. Now what they have there are lifer's, "lovingly encouraging" M&A folk to "come home." Home? HQ has not been "home" Come back to what? A dingy, dank looking, shell of "what once was & could have been???" A place where the blacktop cracks, weeds abound-chocking the once manicured grass lawns, significantly beautiful trees have died, lives have lost & ruined? The hand painted murals have faded, the hand made lobby art, (two stories tall ceramic relief map of the continental US with 1ft diameter embossed brass seals of each of the 50 US states) surely has layers of grimy dust on it. (That was a gift to HQ from "The Way of the USA" believers to honor the auditorium. It has what look like sound waves repeating outward from the spot on the Ohio map where HQ is to signify God's Word emanating from that point through the entire US to the whole world (Word Over The World Auditorium, get it? :-) It took two & 1/2 artist/ceramicists (I was the half, cause all I ever did was hang around w/ them while THEY worked, doin' a little grunt work moving tiles around, checking kiln temps & saying stuff like, "Yep. That color doesn't work. Oh, that one's better.") ...it took them/us about two MAN-YEARS to make that map, I'd love to know how much that thing alone is worth - custom formulated glazes to get the right browns, blues, & greens et al. Come back to TWI? To the Auditorium? The facility with world class intent and potential wasted... that place? Oh you mean the place where they sing mind numbing lyrics dressed in circa 1980 outfits and some Ken doll looking wannabe "performer" moonwalks and break dances with 20 yr old outdated moves in a Navy blue (or was it "funeral black") business suit? I don't think so. I/ WE were "lifers." I feel free to speak for so many of us when I say "Thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift." They threw US out! THANK YOU!!! Those folk, sorry to say even some of my dear friends, are "lifers" on a dead boat. They have missed the boat so badly, the ship is not even on the horizon for them to see how far off the mark they are. It truly IS sad. Sorry for the lengthy post, These things start out to be "one short little comment." Really they do. BTW. In case you wondered. I'm still living out my "God Inspired Professional" dream. Yes. I'm still doing artwork (hopefully world class) for "God's Ministry." However. Now I've come to learn that "GOD's Ministry" is not the ministry work of one particular "church" or one group. Its not the ego-driven desire or lusts of one man. God's ministry is the work of THE church. The "church" I attend, we have a ministry to the country of Swaziland, South Africa. Its about as big as New Jersey, (I think) yet it has the highest incident rate of HIV/AIDS on the entire world. In fact, "this lovely little country" is (or should I say WAS) actually statistically on track to be extinct as a nation of people within a generation, should HIV/AIDS continue on the path its on. WE have decided to do something about it. We feel we are called of God to be His hands & feet in His effort to save the people of Swaziland from disappearing from the face of the Earth. I serve on our Swaziland Communications Team, as part of our Swaziland Ministry. Last Saturday we held our 2nd Annual Swaziland 5K Run/Walk fund raising event. Its just one small part of our overall comprehensive effort that IS ACTUALLY SAVING PEOPLE's LIVES. We help orphan's and widow's and others who simply need some help from those of us who have abundant resources, whereas they have little. This is abundant sharing. Been there, done that? Here's the t'shirt: Talk about your "lifers." How about an 11yr old kid with three younger siblings who is now "Head of his household" because both of his parents died last year from diseases related to HIV/AIDS. He's a "lifer." I'm now a "lifer" whose helping God give that kid his life back. Part of our "work of the ministry" to Swaziland is to help finance his schooling. Our In Community, By Community (ICBC) plan (among other things) finds and identifies orphans & families; recruits & trains widows who are more than willing to become "house mothers" to raise the children. ICBC identifies, recruits & trains pastors who then live IN their community and oversee their local church and the orphan homes in his community. Our church here in the US supplies funding, we send construction groups who build the pastor's home & build & maintain the orphan homes. We come along side them & supply whatever other support we can be for THEIR efforts to educate, and provide for themselves. We don't tell them what to do. we are not their leaders, coordinators, or even mentors. We are their PARTNERS. Our theme for our Swaziland Ministry is "partnering today. preserving tomorrow." I came up with that theme, one night sitting at this same computer while in prayer, asking God, "Hey God, what can we call this thing?" I designed the T'Shirt & my company provided the printing for the shirts. I also expanded the them for the 5k Run to say, "running today. preserving tomorrow." Folks love it. God loves it. I'm a lifer in His, God's ministry.

I'd like to see them try going to grad school at 52 years old.. majoring in something other than aroma therapy or something, that is.. try Real Analysis.. no, you didn't get even half a clue what was coming from the little undergrad intro to real analysis course.. a kid less than half my age gave up.. so one looks at one's options.. try going the *hard* way.. and there are NO GUARANTEES of success.. or.. hmm. what does one do..

God first hi everybody this farm land needs water see Fox I can only you see others News Shows but watch it judge for yourself http://www.foxnews.com/hannity/ http://boards.history.com/topic/Current-Events/The-Valley-That/520071481 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEXRQ-aNouM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXcTFMB8ZEE love Roy <object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXcTFMB8ZEE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXcTFMB8ZEE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

I'm no expert on nihilism but i'll give this a shot: Aside from theology all meaning and purpose in the universe is subjective. For example, why is living more meaningful than dying? If the elimination of human suffering is more important than being happy, than the purpose of life might be to die. If one subjectively concludes that becoming happy is more important than ending suffer, then there is purpose in finding happiness in human existence. " Imagine that you're playing poker and you happen to get these five cards: A♠ K♠ Q♠ J♠ 10♠ You, of course, put on your stoic poker-face and deftly win the whole game. You toss those five cards on the table, rip your shirt in half, make a bunch of primitive, caveman-esque grunting sounds and buy yourself a dozen cars, and maybe a house or two. If you showed those cards to someone who's never played poker before, instead of to the people you were playing against, and you'd be forced to repeat "really?! you don't get it?" about a dozen times before you walked away, wishing you could find someone who understood how awesome that hand was." -http://logiceatsbabies.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-difficulty-with-nihilism.html Nietzche held that in the absence of God, there is no true purpose to life. That's nihilism. I think a number of other philosophers have come to the same conclusion, though i don't have time to find them all. Intuition is not superstition. . . . it's subconscious process whereby people make judgments from the whole of their experience. It's the inner voice that says "this seems right, this is what should fit here." Different parts of TWI doctrines have different effects on different people. Some doctrines are beneficial to most, some are harmful to most depending on how they are perceived and applied.

<Bump> Does anyone have info on the AC '98? JT Here you go.

Groucho......yeah, I agree with you that "lazy lowlifes" has alot to do with it. And further, wierwille groomed these men to take it further than he would.......and, they too, saw the motorcoaches, motorcycles, fawning women everywhere, rock-star status, and dare I say that some had ALREADY PARTAKEN of the "fruit from the pear (pair) tree." Of course, add those elements of arrogance and elitism and DISTANCE (where many, who live in other faraway states tithe to the splinter group) that permeated twi to its core, the culture is ripe for picking bushels of fruit and hiding it in one's own barn. I mean, c'mon......even during the Geer power-grab era, the Indiana limb guy had part-time staff people and volunteers help restore his boat!!!! Sure, he broke away from twi....only to put his shingle on cgeer's street. Someone told me years ago that he quit paying the cgeer franchise fees and is now has his own splinter sub-group. Besides......after 15 years or so in twi (and a resume that sucked), I wonder how many of them had envisioned STRIKING OUT ON THEIR OWN FOR YEARS??????

Break away??? Au contraire He had already broken away and then returned.

I thought I would add one more thought I believe that many times we as Christians fall into a trap of thinking forgiveness equals acting like the sin never happened. but really that is not what forgiveness is, and in this case they have given a predator the privilege of harming their own children.

and I'd add.. *she* hasn't exactly "reached out" to "heal" anyone here, has she? if you are a "healer".. lessee what you've got.. I wonder if *ms* rivenbark still refers to the old poop as "dr."..

Going about it with the wrong orifice. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Krys... I hope you are getting some sense of something... I don't know, maybe closure, maybe catharsis, from sharing this very significant series of events as it was for you and your son and his then wife. Indeed, you've described an incredible mean-spiritedness on the part of TWI. It certainly makes complete sense that you would have been upset because of what happened to your cubs, as it were...

hiya krysilys! thanks much for sharing for us all to read, the true facts behind what happened 10 years ago! i can understand how it must have completrely rocked and rearranged your world, and how shattering it was to your son, and his marriage!!.......to have firsthand experience of being totally on the "right side" of an issue where "god's word is at stake", and yet, be attacked viciously and publicly by the hounds of hell, chased out of "the promised land" with those dogs snarling and biting at your heels,...... distinguishes you and your son as yet two more survivors of the fascistic, religious system which is twi!!.......it's like watching a movie about wwII, in which another hapless family of hardworking, faithful germans is hurled out of der vaterland by the gestapo simply because they knew too much about the "man behind the curtain" and demanded justice from those who had absolutely no concept of what the words "truth and justice" mean!!.......make no mistake fellow greasespotters!........the doofus from okie and his gang of "trustees" would have gleefully allowed linder to use those weapons had they thought they could have gotten away with it!!......and linder would have joyfully enforced "god's will" if the "suggestion", "tantamount to a command", had been given!! as far as the clapps are concerned, their "stand" was meaningless, imo, and a mere 12 years late!!........this was no "surprise" to them!!........they knew full-well the personal history of their fuhrer!!......that was made quite plain to them, as well as all the rest of the "top leadership" of the reichstadt in 1986-87!!.......they chose to willfully ignore the facts then, and again in the spring of 1989, when they swore their loyalty to the doofus from okie and da boyz in da hoods!!........and again in the mid-nineties, when they supposedly were "promised" by their king, that he would change his personal perversities, and straighten up and fly right........again, willfully ignoring the destroyed lives and the myriad lies proclaimed as "the present truth" to their "itching ears"!!.......all the while faithfully and loyally partricipating in the slander, defamation, and human carnage of the various "purges" their mogs were directing to cover their religious reign of terror!!........how many innocents did they agree to "mark and avoid" during their years at the top there in rome city???.........how many lies did they shout from their indiana campus ivory tower?? what was the "great stand" they took??........running to the welcoming arms of CFF!!........where they now rule their own ranks of twi refugees........upholding the "great truths of god's word" taught them by their "father-in-the-word" as if nothing ever happened in their vaterland of "god's word" that is worth APOLOGIZING for!!.......the same phoney, putrid doctrines are held forth by them as if they took some great stand for "truth" by finally leaving their happy, harmless little cult........only to jump right into an offshoot spawned and nurtured by the same poisoned "spiritual DNA" that gave birth to twi!! how many children were bruised and beaten under their watch at rome city??........how many "cop outs" were publicly and privately defamed, lied about, and ridiculed by their loyal, wagging tongues?......how many victims were led to the king's private chamber by boob and doody moynihan under their very noses??.........how many "devils" were "cast out" by their self-deluded operation of the "manifestations"??.......how many grossly perverse and deviant "doctrines" were proclaimed as "god's word" by their faithfully foul "teachings"??............and, how many real changes to all of these "great spiritual truths, not known since the first century" have they made in their long march of "rightly dividing the word of god" during these last 10 years??...........and, perhaps most importantly, how many apologies have they made to those whom they despitefully used and abused during their 12 years of faithful service behind their "walls of zion in the promised land of the present truth"??..............HOW MANY, WAYNE AND FERN??.........HOW LONG WILL YOU PERSIST IN DELAYING, AND THEREFORE DENYING, JUSTICE TO THOSE YOU WILLINGLY AND WILLFULLY SACRIFICED UPON THE ALTAR OF YOUR IDOLS?? thanks again krys, for the honest, genuine stand you took, along with your son, not only then, but also during these last 10 years!..........one thing i've learned during my 50+ years on this earth, is that the words of that old adage, "what goes around comes around", are generally true........."it all comes out in the wash", eventually!.......and i'm truly glad your son is prospering and enjoying his "new" life and family.........truly, god can "restore the years the locusts have eaten"........i'm looking forward to hearing the final pieces to the puzzle you have yet to share with us, and i'm grateful to pawtucket for providing you a safe haven to tell "the other side of the story" here at our favorite cyber-cafe!..................................peace.

And that folks............is "doing the word" according to LCM.

I don't really know how to tell you all about the rest. Some things are crystal clear, and others I've almost forgotten. Where to begin……I guess chronologically is the easiest for a me - - and if you have a difficult time following me, fire those questions away and I'll do my best to answer them. I was sprawled all over my desk/computer preparing a website for a class of teachers who were taking a summer seminar at Stevens Institute in Hoboken NJ. I had a bit less than a week to finish it all up together with the rest of the materials. I think it was a Saturday nite, but I know that the phone rang about 10 or 11 at nite and I remember thinking who would have the nerve to call this late at nite? When I picked it up, at first I wasn't quite sure who was on the other end. It was my son, but he was so terrified his voice was quaking. He told me they had been kicked out..but not much more than that (at that time) and could I please pick them up at the airport the following morning - - early flight, sometime before 10 am. He gave me the phone # of the motel he was in asking me to phone him back.. He told me he was afraid for their lives and by the sound of his voice I was convinced he was right. He wanted to be sure that they weren't cut off and a phone call would get through. I called and he answered. I guess there are something mr linder and others of his ilk cannot do! I continued working, at least I could block out what was needed and fill in the contours of what was needed for the seminar a bit later. But I knew I'd never sleep that night – there was too much whirling around in my head – and my heart. There were many phone calls back and forth until around 2 am. My kids were afraid literally for their lives. I guess when you're confronted by so many guns held by so many very angry men, it does something to you. My kids kept looking over their shoulders for weeks, making sure they were safe. I don't know how I made it through the next 2 weeks. There were many all-nighters, either with my kids, or working on the seminar (which got rave reviews, by the way). The rest of that day, my son spent on the phone calling each and every one of their sponsors and anyone else they knew to tell them what happened and explain it to them in such a way that they would decide to end their association with the twi organization . They were quite successful. A number of their contacts did leave that day – others thought about it a while. Some of those left soon after. There were also phone calls to and from hdqtrs negotiating with the powers that be to get the rest of their stuff back (whatever was at Gunnison). They also had a hard time getting their money back out of their credit union account. The organization wanted to keep a certain portion claiming they were charging for their motel, phone calls, food and airline tickets home. My DIL's father got his company lawyers to work on that one and they got most of their money back. The next 2 weeks were relatively calm. Twi had to finish up that advanced class and it took a number of days to drive the truck with their belongings from Gunnison to our home town….and even right in front of our house. The kids had been instructed to secure a rental unit and when mr linder himself as the driver of the truck arrived on our street, the kids had to lead them to their storage compartment and their stuff was tossed off the truck onto the ground and the kids had to put it in the storage area. It was night time when the truck arrived, so there wasn't too much to see until the following morning when it was light again. The head of safety didn't bother to wait until things were safely put away, but as soon as their things were off-loaded he took off. And yes, there was a pistol on the front seat of the truck. Now that I think of it, poor mister linder must have been afraid of my kids - - otherwise why would he tote a revolver for his defense!? [tongue in cheek, of course] I'll finish up the last bit in a short time.

At some point, we must let it all go. Otherwise the weight of it will drag us down and keep us from doing anything that remotely seems like living some kind of fulfilling life. I didn't want to do this initially. I figured that as long as I kept it all in the front of my memory, I could shoot "bad vibes" at them. What was I thinking? I dunno. I think I was just reacting to the hurt in my heart. Even after I let it go, there were still times where it was on my mind at least once a day for a long time. I think it was years until I realized I'd gone several days without thinking about it. Please don't let stuff like this swirl around in your brain.

For those who've wondered about HOW TWI ASSIGNMENTS ARE GIVEN......here is an example. Martindale offered this Way Disciple Coordinator position.....IF this corps guy would shut up and stay at hq [and "share his wife" with martindale]. NOW.........doesn't that "fit like a hand in a glove" with twi's inclusive evils????

Cognitive dissonance at its worst. Seared conscience. That's the only way I figure the moynihans, rosie, donna, john linder, etc. can sleep at night. My ex has bought their lies and practically had a panic attack any time I started to provide proof that they were lying. We divorced in 2004 and even then he refused to believe that vee pee died of cancer. The kids, sadly, are not much better off that those kids in the polygamists cults. They get interaction with the "outside world" but still filter every word and experience through what Mama, Daddy and the MOGs teach them.

Wow... I'm so sorry you guys had to go through that. Dooj is soooooo right, there were MANY victims, not just the women seduced into adultery by malignant narcissists and their self-justifying false doctrines. And I'm VERY glad your son was able to regain his life, much better than it had been before.

Thanks you abi; now I see. Yes it takes a long time to recover from something like this. I know I'm not finished healing from it. It turned my husband off God completely. My son tried to reconcile with his wife but they just couldn't get it together after this. It wasn't a matter of trust, my son says his (then) wife had her whole head so twisted around by all this, that it seemed to him she couldn't consistently continue with rational thoughts and processes. Even as much as 2 months afterwards, she was still roaming around from room to room thinking she was on vacation somewhere. It wasn't real to her that she needed to start looking in the paper for a job. She just could not get it together. They found a small apartment not too far from where we lived, and they went off to see it. They took separate cars because she was going to look in on her mother afterward (so she said) but she was not seen again (by him)! Shortly after this, she went home to our house and packed her things while I was at work and lived with her mother for quite a while. Her father told my son to let her go - - she was so much like her mother - - and who else would know? It took a long long time for him to start coming out of it. I think he recovered faster than I did. Now, he's remarried to a wonderful young woman who really loves him. He makes an excellent living and really enjoys his life.