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I think religion is Bullchit, even (especially?) the Way-flavored kind. And I also think that the years, money, and effort I put into WayWorld were an abysmal waste of life. Next question?

This is the new ministry theme for 2010. Fresh news, just released! You’ve all been waiting for this, haven’t you?! Living the Word's Way : Making God our Sufficiency I have little doubt that this ultimately come down to being all about the "here and now," the physical needs that we have being met. Even less doubt that it’ll be tied into some rich teachings (ahem) about God providing for our finances if only we will give more to the work of the ministry (read, TWI). And it will be very little about the love, joy, peace and comfort that there is in really knowing God as our strength and sufficiency and knowing His sustaining power in times of great anxiety or distress. …Your experience may vary…

We were in a major shopping plaza and they recognized us. We (and they) were happy to see one another. The 4 of us were always good friends while we were in. We talked a while. They are still in.....and what we've been told about a kinder gentler organization seems to be true. They rattled off at least a dozen names of people we knew or at the very least knew of.....and these folks went back in the past year or so. Apparently there is no more Mark and Avoid. Out of curiosity I asked what they knew about the '98 Advanced Class fiasco and they said the young corp couple had no business disrupting the Advanced Class and so it was good that they were eventually found out and sent home. (They were never told that that couple was our kids) We were encouraged to go back (of course) and one of the reasons is that at the October anniversary, we could get a plaque recognizing our previous 20 years. All we had to do was call the limb coordinator and "voila". It was nearly impossible for me to keep the contents of my stomach where it belonged. After we said goodbye and went on our way.....I started crying, not huge sobs....but a huge sadness that these folks would slide back into this really slimy group. I guess it's easier than thinking for yourself, and the comfort of the '70's and early 80's was a soft comfy cocoon (at least in one's memory). We may have a whole lot of work to do to try to pry this group loose, although it may be futile.

Hey all, JW . . . What do you guys think was really in his head? I think he really believed he was the MOG and all. He would even tell people, go to the Word and see for yourself . . . I think he expected people who had his secret knowledge to find the same exact "truths" in the bible.

We've had several "where were you?" threads. Where were you when JFK was assassinated? Where were you when the towers fell? Where were you when we landed on the moon? Where were you----? But here's a bit of a twist. That night in session 12, when you spoke in tongues for your very first time and knew that you knew that you knew------Where was Wierwille? Perhaps he was riding one of his high priced motorcycles or off on a "hunting trip" with Howard. Maybe he was three sheets to the wind, polishing off yet another bottle of Drambuie. Maybe he was "counseling" an innocent young recruit on "what it means to be alive". Think about it. At that very moment, what do you think VPW was doing?

After some 35 years of twi involvement and post-examination, I am convinced that twi's lifeblood is the abundant sharing of its "membership." Clearly, pfal classes (or wap-up-side-the-head classes) and bookstore sales and event conferences do NOT begin to cover the payroll or operating expenses. Twi continues to market it product in the framework of "Living the Word's Way"......a mantra that has been repeated for 40 years, at least. Timing is everything, as they say in business....and wierwille had "the product" at the right time to sell when young, rebellious leaders were looking for something outside the pail of the church or the so-called establishment. Many of the once-youth-gone-wild-with-pfal are those who, NOW, sit in those upper-seats at twi's hq. No, I'm really not surprisd by this. The political area has the same landscape. Follow the money. Follow the money. Follow the money. Twi's lifeblood is the ABS flow.....those who've faithfully given 10% - 15% of their income for decades, and are raising up teenagers to do the same. And even when times are economically tough, twi has a "blood bank of supply" stored from 1978-1985 that grows in interest. Many of us Greasespotters contributed thru the years. Remember that old pfal line?..."The reason the Dead Sea is so dead is because it has all inlets, no outlets." The reason twi is so dead is......All money and support flows into hq and very, very little flows out. With srategic manipulation......there is no coincidence that "abundance, sufficiency, stewardship, etc" finds it way into teachings or themes all the time. These "prosperity ministries" are popping up everywhere!!! I mean, doesn't everyone want money to rain down from heaven above ???? Speaking of blood and all.....it's good that twi has a "doctor" in their house. <_<

Well, isn't this the first slogan (urr... um, theme) they've had in almost twenty years that hasn't had the word "PREVAILING" in it? How about, "Prevailing the Word's Way : God is our Sufficiency" --- that sounds so much more appropriately wayspeak to my ears, lol.

What, Highway? You think it should be "Prevailing upon God's Sufficiency"? I don't see many folks from the Cafe volunteering to partake in this tremendous new year of outreach.

Sure. I'm glad to know certain truths such as these. I'm also glad to know that TWI isn't where I learned 90% of them. I'm also glad to know facts and truths about TWI leaders so that I can evaluate the fruit of their lives as opposed to simple truths they taught, because Jesus taught that you know people by their fruit. I'm glad to know about wolves in sheep's clothing. Anybody else?

Living the Word's Way : Making God our Sufficiency To understand this bit of crusty old boring drivel involves both the theme and RFR. You see, there is no new light strategically at TWI. RFR is an old English teacher at retirement age, and doesn't have the energy to steer an organization or come up with any genuine strategic plan. However, she still is among the most controlling people ever to live and every single decision will absolutely run through her until she kicks off or some other BOD person manages to implant lips upon behind enough to convince her that they will carry out her will to the T. They go back to the PFAL collaterals. The scandal tainted anything LCM ever did, and they are far too controlling to ever approve any new research. So what is left? Worshipping the structure, teachings, and writings that brought them there. It's a canning process - inject the preservatives, hang on to the money, and try and preserve the "legacy our Father in the Word" left them. The Word's Way ties in anything they do to the collaterals, which basically are a 10th grade level group of distilled sermons and magazine arcticles by VPW. All their teachings, writings, even the "Adv. Class Special" is all collaterals. They will not approve anything else, and every teaching and writing goes through many levels of editing and approvals before being allowed to be presented. Now it's all basically making an idol out of VPW - you have the statues, you have the dumbed down teaching, and they can sweep under the carpet all the old sex scandals and say that was just LCM. Sure - make a dumb idol out of the old lecherous plagiarist and worship his sermons and writings. Why? Oh of course because RFR presided over the Publications through a lot of that. You see, the adversary is a parasite. There is never any genuine growth - he always has to leech of something that is already there. It can look organized down to a "T". It can look polished. It can look positive, controlled, advancing. But THERE IS NOTHING GENUINELY THERE. Even a strategic look - it's OLD. I used to hear sayings like "It's a big ship and it takes time to turn it", and "It's a world-wide ministry" - all statements overhyping the importance of these little Napolean's positions. And then I'd look to the business world and see companies 1000s of times larger than TWI redefining themselves in a matter of a year or two. All to go where the times are changing. TWI's leadership is physically, mentally, and morally incapable of defining a new strategic direction. They are so encapsulated with protecting their little universes that they will never climb out enough to mount any kind of initiative. And RFR is a lesbian Stalin (how's that for imagery) - trapped by who she is, controlling down to the littlest detail and identifying and killing off anyone with enough gumption to present an idea contrary to hers. It's a huge hamster wheel that people burn their whole lives running on without ever going anywhere or ever waking up to see they're not going anywhere. "Making God Our Sufficiency?" - sure - God takes care of hamsters on wheels too, even if it's their blood that's sustaining the parasite.

That's a lie that there's no more Mark and Avoid. They call it "spiritual probation" and put people on it for whatever reasons the BOD decides. I know of people that have had that happen in the past few years. They aren't allowed to attend any fellowship or ministry events, but are encouraged to continue to send in their tithes and abundant sharing to TWI, as well as purchase and listen to their teaching tapes. All followers treat the probation exactly identically to Mark and Avoid - no contact, phone calls, won't talk to if seen in public, etc. The "kinder gentler" organization is a two-faced public front they will put on to try and pretend that things are different. They are not. Can a leopard change its spots? Neither can the BOD change who they are on their knees before. And it isn't God.

I have a friend who I was in the 8th. Corps with. She and her husband have been on staff ever since they graduated the Corps. She's now on FB and we're FB friends. Much to my surprise she's been extremely warm and friendly. She actually told me of the where-a-bouts of 2 other women I was wondering about. She and her husband are intelligent people, I can't understand how they can still be there. Of course she has an inheritance waiting for her so she doesn't have to worry about her future but I can't imagine living "The Way" all these years. I haven't been invited to any events yet, it will be interesting to see where this new relationship goes. I've been out since 1993 and also don't know anything about an Advanced Class cover-up. Anyone able to fill me in. thanks

So did he say that 1 Cor 15:3 was a blatant forgery? How about Romans 5:8? Or what, exactly, was his excuse?

I don't believe Jesus was a god either! They are as far as I can tell I think the evidense suggests that prayer doesn't work I disagree, at least if you believe the bible definitely not! How can I argue with your travel plans? Hey, you weren't impolite or judgemental...so I'll be nice!

The Way Ministry Global Youth Organization Global Basic Info Name: The Way Ministry Global Youth Organization Category: Organizations - Clubs & Societies Description: Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in faith, in purity. I Timothy 4:12 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. Philemon 1:6 A BELIEVER’S PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE: I pledge allegiance to the one true God And to His son Jesus Christ And to His Word for which we stand, One household under God, indivisible, With liberty and love for all. Originally initiated as "The Fort" at The Way International Headquarters at The Rock of Ages in 1994, it developed into the youth program of all the Staff children living on-grounds and eventually included all the off-grounds Staff children in New Knoxville, Ohio by the late 1990's. Today it involves hundreds of The Way Ministry's Youth Followers from around the World living God's Prevailing Word in The Fellowship of The Household as the future of The Way Ministry lived from generation to generation. By living and sharing the Word today, we help to build a bridge to the future that will enable God’s Word to live from generation to generation. God’s Word remains alive and vigorous by sharing it from generation to generation. In our fast-paced lives, people can forget the deliverances and blessings in their lives. Teaching and sharing the Word helps us to remember God’s promises and the treasures we have been taught from those who went before us. As we pattern our lives after those who have lived and believed the Word, the example and impact of our lives will help God’s Word live for generations to come. That's what it's all about! The Way Ministry Global Youth Organization 2009-2010 Officers: PRESIDENT: Drew Sheean Director & Chairman, Way Youth Organization U.S. Coast Guard; The Way of Florida Marco Island, FL / Key West, FL Duty Email: Andrew.J.Sheean@uscg.mil Office Email: MarcoIslandSurfer@yahoo.com Direct Line: (609)408-0815 SENIOR OFFICER: Tony Thomas Co-Vice Chairman, Way Youth Global Administration The Way of California; San Diego, CA Email: waydisciple@hotmail.com EXECUTIVE OFFICER: Collin Moseley Co-Vice Chairman, Way Youth Global Administration Mid-Atlantic / East Coast Events Lancaster, PA Email: collinmoseley@gmail.com * YOUTH EVENTS COMMITTEE: COORDINATOR: Sarah Oeding; Camp Gunnison, CO / Indianapolis, IN West Central / Mid-West Events Email: hottsmo430@yahoo.com Vince Sullivan, U.S. Marine Corps; San Diego, CA Central West Coast Events Email: vincent.sullivan@gmail.com Jonathan Williams; Sacramento, CA North West / West Coast Events Email: akira226@Gmail.com Stephen Ladwig, U.S. Navy; San Diego, CA South West Coast Events Email: sp_ladwig@hotmail.com SECRETARY: Audrey DeLisle Way Youth Global Administration International Headquarters; New Knoxville, OH Contact Info Email: Website: http://www.theway.org Office: (609)408-0815 Location: Hammock Bay Marco Island, FL THE 9-12 PROJECT FOR AMERICA "THE PRINCIPLES OF THE UNITED STATES" Host: GLENN BECK Type: Causes - Rally Network: Global Price: No Charge Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009 Time: 1:00pm - 3:00pm Location: FOX NEWS (CHANNEL) City/Town: Washington, DC Phone: 6094080815 Email: marcoislandsurfer@yahoo.com Description"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments." - GEORGE WASHINGTON America Is Good. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life. God “The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained.” from George Washington’s first Inaugural address. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday. Honesty “I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider to be the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.” George Washington The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government. Marriage/Family “It is in the love of one’s family only that heartfelt happiness is known. By a law of our nature, we cannot be happy without the endearing connections of a family.” Thomas Jefferson If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it. Justice “I deem one of the essential principles of our government… equal and exact justice to all men of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political.” Thomas Jefferson I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results. Life, Liberty, & The Pursuit of Happiness “Everyone has a natural right to choose that vocation in life which he thinks most likely to give him comfortable subsistence.” Thomas Jefferson I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable. Charity “It is not everyone who asketh that deserveth charity; all however, are worth of the inquiry or the deserving may suffer.” George Washington It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. On your right to disagree “In a free and republican government, you cannot restrain the voice of the multitude; every man will speak as he thinks, or more properly without thinking.” George Washington The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me. Who works for whom? “I consider the people who constitute a society or a nation as the source of all authority in that nation.” Thomas Jefferson The WallDisplaying the only wall post RSVP to this event to post Jon Williams wrote at 3:49pm on August 30th, 2009 WOoooow that's some quality American/ Men of God speaking there! Love it, and this is what this nation was founded on so I give it TWO BIG 'OL Thumbs UP Drew! Report ShareExportYour RSVPAttending Maybe Attending Not Attending Other InformationThe guest list is hidden. Guests are allowed to bring friends to this event. Event TypeThis is an open event. Anyone can join and invite others to join. AdminsThe Way Ministry Global Youth Organization (creator) Report Event

Speaking of Project 9/12: Glenn Beck's '9-12' logo based on Communist/Socialist Designs and Breaking: Glenn Beck secret communist, socialist? :blink: :blink: Say it ain't so, Glenn!! ... (((sobs))) P.S., Oh and as an experienced graphics designer, I can see their point.

krys.....twi's "kinder,gentler" transition is nothing more than snooze control. ~~~ Sure, no more mark/avoid.....but what if I have pointed questions about the '98 adv cl cover-up?? ~~~ Sure, some are staying in twi's "social club of elitism".....and heads remain willfully in the sand. ~~~ Sure, twi is trying to distance themselves from their dark and sordid past.......nothing new there. BUT SOME LONG-STANDING FOLLOWERS ARE STILL LEAVING......in April, two of our friends who had been with twi since 1972 finally exited.

You are assuming (of course) that the very first time I spoke in tongues was a result of session 12. That's B as in B, and S as in S. Docvic's "class" was - - - well, I'd best not say. Even on this site. A charismatic Catholic fellowship I attended previous to twi taught all the same stuff - - - for free. To answer your other "where were you" questions: JFK was assassinated when I was in 6th grade. I was at work busting my a$$ when the towers fell. I was at a music camp in Morehead Kentucky, when man first stepped on the moon. We were learning and discussing theory concerning keyboards and the music thereof, though those who played wind or stringed instruments were welcome at those sessions also. :) If you want to know the truth Waysider - - - I never did give a ratz a$$ about where docvic was or what he was doing while I was spending my money taking classes, or "this or that" offered by the Org. I find it immaterial/ and redundant to speculate now. I mean really - - - - Who gives a $h!t. Just say he was drunk, and let it go at that. That would be the truth 99.99% of the time.

well.. is *she*.. or isn't *she*.. sometimes.. only the hair dresser knows..

2 things...or as Richard Nixon would say..."just let me say this about that". I clearly remember listening to a SNS teaching from HQ and it would have been along about 1975 or so. VPW, on tape, really nailed the Corps about not having enough respect for him for how accurately he taught "The Word". He was teaching from II Peter 1 and he mentioned by name how neither Oral Roberts or Billy Graham had the the accuracy that he did. Then, to make his point very clear, he spoke into the mic and said that, E.W. Bullinger didn't have "it" either. I remember this because I was 18 years old and it really shook me up. He didn't come out and actually say that he was the "Man of God", but he definitely said he had the greatest teaching and revelation of "The Word" of anyone and in PFAL (or as some affectionately call PLAF) he all but said the teaching was the greatest since the Apostle Paul. I just sat there at the age of 17 and said, "UUHHHHH...YUP!! SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!!" VP being the MOG was pushed very heavily in the Corps. LCM screamed it from the rafters. VPW let other people say it for him, but I have a hard time believing that he didn't propogate this himself and let others carry the fight for him. He certainly never said anything against it. So, I said all of that to say this, I think VPW deluded himself into believing that he was the MOGFOT. Many of us, and I'll speak for myself, replaced Christ with him. BTW, when you say "most normal folks would have moments when they knew it was b.s...." Not me. I swallowed it all, hook, line, and sinker. Than again, maybe I wasn't a normal folk. I was, after all, in a cult.

Welcome! I learned to discipline my mind, be courageous, be positive, avoid drugs, and a few other things. For those I am thankful. I don't think that knowing all of the ideas that you listed is good though. The problem is, many "fellowships" hang on to a lot of really crazy ideas and it's hard to join a church if you believe that Jesus isn't God, etc. Cheers, Bishop

Amen & Thank you. I thought I was the only one that thought that. Anyway, It's been awhile since I visited the Cafe and decided to stop in. Why? I don't know what triggered it but I realised 30yrs ago this year I took "the class". At that time in Cincinnati & heck, Ohio you couldnt go anywhere without seeing a green bumper sticker but after the "POP" or split, it's like the Way never existed here. In a way (no pun) that is kind of sad.

That continued on different levels for years after that. I was once blamed for it raining too. i was also once blamed for not knowing where a plant was supposed to go. We had borrowed a community room to have a meeting. I was on the set up crew meaning we had to reclean everything ahead of time, bring plants etc. When it was over, we were supposed to leave things better than we found them. We were cleaning again. It was taking forever. There had been some offices and a lobby attached to this community room. Some of the set up crew had borrowed the plants and put them in the meeting room. One plant was left over that nobody remembered or knew where it had been taken from. I was confronted for not knowing where the plant was to be returned. I had nothing to do with the plants, I was in the bathrooms cleaning them. But because I was a FC, I should have been on top of it spiritually and known where the plant was supposed to go. Now we had set a bad witness for the community because the people who worked in the building would come back to work and find the plant out of order. It didn't matter that we had cleaned everything twice. I had ruined everything by not getting revelation where the plant went. I must have been out of fellowship. I was tired and sick of cleaning the bathrooms. I sat down in the hallway and cried. i guess I was also spiritually immature.

So many blame games....but for me, the one that always pi$$ed me off was that us corps DIDN'T STOP THE RAIN at corps week and/or rock of ages. Almost every year from 1981-1985, this confrontation was leveled at us. Of course, the "law of believing" was king.....and since the trustees didn't want rain at this time, it was OUR believing that was at fault. Oh, and another thing, when Howard Allen said that wierwille actually lived 136 years old (68 X 2) because he lived double of what most men in life do.....I could see that HA was trying to cover for vp's 'sudden' death WITHOUT MENTIONING CANCER. Yeah....H.E. Wierwille died at 70 ........Ermal Owens died at 69 ........VPW died at 68 And, 3 of my grandparents died in their 90s, and my maternal grandpa died at 86. Kinda makes one wonder about their so-called "law of believing."

Yeah, but I can see where that might escape your notice if you were hiding out in the woods so as to avoid doing chores.