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We were warned?... The entire way ministry was based on Wierwille's claim that God spoke audibly to him..."I will teach you the word as it has not been known since the first century if you will teach it to others"...the snow on the gas pumps story...When Vic made this claim in piffle, it was the lightning bolt that exploded in people's minds...it was the HOOK. This drunken schmuck was God's chosen one! If you questioned him, you were gone. 13 years after I first took piffle...I was confronted by twi leadership and asked if I disagreed with "dr" wierwille (this was 2 years after he croaked)...I said yes and was considered to be a spiritual leper. Looking back, I can honestly say that questioning wierwille was the same as being "out of fellowship"...warned?...what? are you kidding me?

In August 2001 the WayGB figured out that I was posting on Grease Spot Cafe. After a face-to-face "confrontation" by the Region Coordinators T&D H******s I was told over the phone that I "was no longer welcome at any Way functions". Why? Because I "did not believe that the Trustees were leading 'the ministry' in the right direction". I was already "out" in my heart for at least a year, but was holding on in the hope that I could convince my wife to leave too. Three months later my wife at the time threw me out. As several characters in Monty Python and the Holy Grail said "I got better".

TWI was and is a veritable smugfest. One had to be very careful about how one presented oneself in order to avoid being smugged by others in the group. Everything in TWI was geared toward raising the level of smuggness. It was thought of as such a good thing.

so is this another "GSC has run its course" thread? he he :P

If the original post has a smugness to it, then that is what you are interjecting into it. It's not my intent. What I have been trying to do is make sense of some of the experiences that people have shared here. So I ask questions. There is a reason why I keep asking, and I am trying to do it in the least threatening manner possible. I want the people who may be reading this forum anonymously to hear what so many told themselves that made all of this ok at the time. Maybe they will see themselves and realize that what they are experiencing as a religion has little to do with God and a relationship with Jesus, and more about being right. Every person who has been involved in TWI has lost something as a result, whether it be relationships, opportunities, time, innocence, or even their lives. They did it and do it so they could and can have that sense of being right and being involved with an organization that teaches "truth" and therefore secures the faithful a better place in the new world. VPW told people not to take his word for anything that he taught. It was good advice whether he meant it or not. In retrospect it truly served as a warning, and it still does. Some of us heeded the warning. I'm more than happy to share what that cost me at the time. Many did not, in what turned out to be a bad call. Those of you who allowed yourself to be pressured into unquestioning loyalty can help those who are still in by explaining how you were pressured and why you felt the need to conform. You can tell people how that worked for you. I can help people by sharing how it felt not to conform; what kind of stress that brought into my life, and how that worked for me. Most of us survived whether we conformed or not. Now we can step back and evaluate what can be learned from the experience.

The Who "Wont get fooled again",and another one to those still "in" The Who "Meet the new boss same as the old boss".

They got rid of hitchhiking right after 1994--at least the hitchhiking to LEAD. It interfered too much with their schedule.. Then it was gone completely and they did a map reading excercise instead. The duo was the coolest thing about LEAD IMO

In regards to the recent trend of "is twi worth our efforts anymore"...my opinion is that if twi is faltering and shrinking for "various" reasons...it's not the time to let up on them...now is the time to put the boots to them and finish them off...after that, we can go after the splinter groups like nazi war criminals... This entire Wierwillian philosophy of "power of the mind" should probably be labeled as witchcraft...his disciples continue on like mold growing in a dark damp place. I am repulsed by what they do to people. They rape the mind and ravage the soul. ...Because of what they have done...I will continue to do the Mexican hat dance on their faces.... Any thoughts?

Hi, Holly Here's a link to a rather lengthy thread (39 pages) that deals with some of the darker aspects of L.E.A.D. Unfortunately, many of the dangerous aspects of L.E.A.D. were not abandoned when they came to light, as you will discover in reading the thread. And there is this one, as well:

geisha779.......yes, the original post on this thread has a SMUGNESS to it. For anyone who follows GS regularly.....this poster has stated this "what the he11 were you WOW's and Corps amd FellowLaborers thinking" question MANY TIMES in various forms. Hence, my post above addresses two points. YET........this poster went and spend years in CES, where elitism reigns supreme.

Your argument is grossly overstated IMO. I suppose it depends on how one defines "corrects a child" however. For that matter, I disagree with your claim that kids are more unruly today then we were, and I lived my whole childhood on various army posts. I wonder if there is some hormone thing that kicks in for some people at a certain age whereby they get older and start to complain about the next generation. I think my grandpa had that condition, and my dad to a lesser degree. Mom never succombed to it, and fortunately it seems to have skipped me. teachers AND parents correct children every day, without being abusive or sued.

My my my - what people were willing to do to avoid conflict.

Yup, don't take anyone's word for it, but don't forget to use made up definitions, refer to nonexistent "old documents", and base your conclusions on faulty premises while you're "checking it out for yourself". Yeah, let's "go to the Word", but here's what it really means...

My 8th grade science teacher, Mrs. Warner, wouldn't let me miss class to go.