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written in my blog, but the references will be clear to so many here.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- We were involved with a religious something or other for 16 years that did an annual camping thing where others, as well involved, hung for a week listening to some creepy guy preach hell fire and brimstone with a personal touch. I dreaded the event for the next year, avoided discussing it, cringed at the planning of it and generally was all over hateful of it. But we went. Every. ..... Year. In 1992 in the planning, we determined that, for the first time actually, we could afford to accommodate ourselves in something other than a tent or sleeping in the back of our truck. We could rent a pop-up ! Still being the cost cutter than I was, I suggested we do so from someone private, saving the deposit fees, using a camper also used by someone we knew and trusted. Brilliant idea in theory, really it was. Arrangements made, camper secured to our truck, angry pre-teen along for the 16 hour drive; we were on our way, traveling in a caravan of other week long campers that were also required to attend this stupidness. Bob set up our new digs while I arranged the outside area, both of us thinking we had hit the big time this year and not to mention we were camping in one of his favorite woods; The Way Woods. While it was, indeed, a beautiful area, amazing scene and in an area of the country we both loved. I awoke the next morning feeling.......odd; that's the only way I can describe it. I just felt like something was amiss, something was wrong, something was going on that I couldn't put my finger on and if you know me at all, you then know that I don't do well at all if I don't know what's going on, especially when I KNOW something is going on. The second day, I was sick ! I mean S I C K, bad. High fever, general overall ohdangwhatthematterwithme, just someone please shoot me sick. Given our current surroundings and circumstances, there wasn't alot of opportunity to address my sudden and unexplained illness, even if we did discuss it with alot of people who either 1) prayed for me 2) asked me too many questions or 3) stared at me too long. I had to attend fellowship meetings, I had to be mama to the angry pre-teen who didn't want to be there, I had to be who I was, regardless of being so sick I was but waiting til the moment of death when I could finally rest. Bob was wonderful in that he tried to take care of me but we didn't know what the hell to take care of and this religious bunch was of the instruction that if you're sick, you suck and you better figure it out and not be a burden to the rest of us. We finally, on day 3 or so, seek out a first aid set up they had that they actually called "third aid" in that in addition to the general band aids and aspirin, they'd offer prayer and condemnation. I'd had my fill of both already and noted no improvement but I played along for dangs and giggles. By now, my fever had several times spiked 104, I was seeing things that weren't supposed to be there, said some stuff that I was later told scared others but was assumed to have the devil in me, so more prayers were prayed, louder whispers were whispered and I was surely at death's door or at the very least going to start puking pea soup at any moment. My right leg was a swollen mess of nastiness and very hot, so it was finally determined that something must have chewed on my flesh but the bite mark made no sense to anyone, anywhere, anytime. The area was turning black and spreading. Black Widow Spider? Nah, I was still alive, mostly. A Rattle Snake? Nope, still alive, I was, contrary to my own prayers. Finally, the 16 hour drive home was upon us and I was way and far past miserable and my husband was way and far past scared and all we could think of was getting our asses home so he could get his saw out and remove the offending limb. Well, ok, that was my wish, not his; he wouldn't agree. The prayers must have worked, as I understood later that, in reality I should have been a goner by this point. Finally ! in an emergency room back home seven days since this nightmare began, a doctor had me on my belly, poking around at the spot behind my knee, talking to my husband while my own prayers were something like "go ahead and euthanize me, sign the papers, I don't really care", but what I heard was "we are going to have to amputate her leg, it's gone on too long and the damage is too great, she'll lose her life" Well, then, aint that a concept. I'd been bitten by a Brown Recluse Spider. I had invaded it's home in the camper, apparently and it was ....ed off enough to show me who was boss. The man I'd married and the doctor to whom he'd dragged my very sick self talked among themselves while I faded in and out, but I did hear Bob say "no, I'll do whatever I have to, just teach me" That instruction involved my husband scraping the ever growing nastiness on my leg 4 times a day of the dead tissue, cleaning the already fist sized hole and packing it with fascinating things and giving me some shot that I still don't remember since we had also been doing fertility something or other shots then too. I refused. My husband, in his usual humor said "then I will agree to take your leg myself and you really don't want me to do that, so we're doing this, so get with me" I got with him and for three months ! he had to debribe this nastiness happening on the back of my leg, before he went to work, coming home during lunch, and again at night before bed. It involved some incredible pain, alot of screaming (usually me, but not always) and still remained fear of losing the leg or the life. Talk about remembering wedding vows..........whoa! Little by little, the area shrunk, healed and the painful treatments melted to twice a day, then once, until finally it was just a matter of me being able to care for it myself and then leaving a quarter sized hole in the back of my knee as a battle scar. If you have a strong gut, google pictures of a Brown Recluse Spider's damage, but remember I warned you. www.shellonnorth.com

32 years today huh? What a WONDERFUL thing; congratulations to you two ! :wub:

It might have been a week ago. It might be a week from now. I'm not gonna tell. But "dressed in sackcloth..."? "Sitting in ashes..."? I guess, if that's how you want to commemmorate your anniversary of independent breath. I offer my deepest condolences. :) (P.S. For those who don't know, please DO NOT use the obvious words here, per the Wolfman's prior expressed desire).

Anyone at the 1995 Advanced Class at Rome City, June? I couldn't go because I was extremely pregnant with Kelly, but my husband went (which was another story in believing with him going across country while his wife was so close to birthin' a baby). Anyway, that was another class where they got their anus's kicked cuz of excessive rain. What was wrong with their believing, they were advanced class students ferchristsake, blah and yada blah. I can still see my husband's face when he relayed the story to me and still remember it as yet another incident of knowing we were in some bad shi+ even though we'd already been in that shi+ for 14 years. I came across his (my husband) notes a few weeks ago on that class.............yikes. It rained alot.

I think you hit the nail on the head - the lack of grace.

Another time, our fearless FLO leader announced at morning fellowship that it didn't matter if we were only getting 4 or 5 hours sleep/night because, if we were speaking in tongues as much as we were supposed to and got our believing up, we could go on virtually no sleep at all. Guess who overslept through 5:30 fellowship the next day-- :P

One of my fellow laborer brothers had what started out as a fairly minor, treatable medical condition. Because of the nature of our program and the expectations that were placed on us, he tried to "believe" for healing. Long story made short, he got septicemia, spent a week in the hospital and darn near lost an appendage, not to mention, his life. Another guy I knew from those days moved on to a position on staff at HQ. He developed a very serious, acute medical condition that can be treated if addressed in the early stages. He was ridiculed because he couldn't get his believing up.He died. That's the kind of "crazy" stuff I'm talking about.

Oh man...oh man...you could have looked at him with a calm composed face and simply responded, "I am a spiritual ambassador for the Lord thy God. The Lord hath need of your van." Hand held out pointing at the keys like the ghost of christmas future. Dammit for you guys having all the fun - I have never run into a wayfer or even ex-wayfer face to face in the 24 years or so since I left. Probably god protecting them from my rather distorted sense of humor.

Ham, http://hackedgadgets.com/2008/02/27/hamster-powered-generator/

Greetings and Salutations! I wish to to thank you all at Gresespot for providing this forum. As so many before me, I felt alienated, as though I alone had escaped... The following are questions I was actually asked at one time or another in job interview settings. The last is perhaps the most poignant: "I see you have lived in IA, WA, MS, LA and now NM. Were you on some kind of 60's roadtrip?" -No but I always wanted to travel and see as much of the country as I could... "You have a great variety of previous experience. Can you tell me why you think working as a chimney sweep would make you qualified for a management position?" -Did I tell you I also clean windows.? "We are unable to establish a credit history for you." -Oh. I have paid cash for everything for the last 6 years... "We would like to offer you a job, but frankly your references did not check out." -Oh. I think they are all in Ohio, but will be back by the first of September... "I see you went to college at *** in the 70's. And I can't help but notice there is a 10 year gap on your resume. Were you in som e kind of trouble?" -Out of the mouths of babes.... Again, thank all of you so much. Many tears of laughter and release have been shed here as a result of the communications concerned. Perhaps will post more! One of the almost 4,000 egilkent

another thing is swamps, marshes, fens . . . not for energy . . . but waste removal there's a dude nearby I've thought about studying under. He studies the bacteria and such in swamps and wetlands, even has a fen established nearby I like to go to. He thinks we can take wetlands and turn them into waste processing factories. You could take the chlorocarbons from the drycleaner and feed it to a wetland, where some critters see it as food, and make it harmless and environmentally friendly and yada yada. sweet, now after energy production comes the problem of load leveling and energy storage. Like batteries, although, an elevated barrel of stored rain water would do. I know one dude whose family builds there own energy harnessing devices. Also met a dude who is totally off the grid. . . Don't know why more people don't build there own electricity generating devices. Probably the same reason nobody eats vegetables.

Here ya go: http://otherpower.com/otherpower_hydro.html

Another point is that many, many churches have been able to meet the spiritual needs of people much more than TWI ever dreamed of. Not just the spiritual needs, but the social needs as well. When I got involved in TWI the churches weren't "doing their jobs". I remember hearing (according to VP) that the church buildings were empty 6 days a week - only used for Sunday services. That is not true of today's churches - at least around here. The church we sometimes go to has a youth group, a mens bible study, a womens bible study, singles meetings, classes on basic Christianity, marriage, family, commitment, and much more. There's always something going on there - the parking lot always seems to be at least half full. And as far as "outreach" goes: they build "Habitat for Humanity" houses and go to homeless shelters to feed the needy. They donate their time and efforts to several missions. They don't HAVE to witness to get people to attend - it's just a natural extention of their good works and charity. Spiritually, the sermons are timely, thought-provoking and well done. Sure, there are doctrinal differences from what we were taught in TWI - but it's going to be that way with any other church or religious organization. TWI's doctrines were and are unique to them - and as far as I'm concerned - they can keep it all to themselves. Oh - and another thing that changed in the past decade or so is that we were instructed to not witness to anyone unless they had their physical stuff together - no losers in TWI anymore - no weaknesses! See, they were trying to "weed out" the weakness in those who were already involved - so of course, no one who was weak to begin with was really welcome. Most "non-loser" types who are well into their 40's have already become a part of a church or synagogue. They've raised their kids in them and contributed a lot of time and money to the denomination. Most are happy with their religious affiliations and aren't going to change for something that will offer them less than what they've already experienced. So - when the equation is: good churches + good works + good pastors, people & programs - charity + no weakness allowed = no new people in TWI! I know what my answer would be... "No thanks, no church with you..."