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We had a Political forum on the GSC, and it almost shut down the entire site. It took many times more moderation than all the rest of the board put together. Pawtucket was about to shut down the entire GSC out of frustration, but elected to keep everything else and just jettison the politics- which is unnecessary anyway. When 9-11 happened, a lot of people wanted to talk about it. That's how the politics board started, a board on 9-11, that expanded. But discussions got ugly, and posters didn't limit themselves to just mean posts in that board. Some followed other posters around and attacked them on threads that have nothing to do with politics, And so on. It made for a toxic environment. So, someone else agreed to moderate a purely political forum, and Paw jettisoned the one here. As I understand it, the other one lasted a few months, then fizzled out. I'm not sure why because I didn't follow it. So, the rule at the GSC is, NO POLITICS.

UK maps have Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America). If there's no good reason to change a name of centuries, why bother? Ah, says an orangeman, there is good reason. My ego! TBH if it were called Gulf of THE Americas, that would be understandable and maybe acceptable. The area is bounded by the continent of North America and the isthmus of Central America; and South America forms a southern boundary though arguably not exactly on the gult. The lengths of the Mexican border and the north American border appear to be about the same. But no. The orangeman thinks America means the whole of the continent of North America (sorry, Canadians). And sharing with other parts of "America" (ie, Central and South) just isn't in the playbook. It's likely the rest of the world with stick with Gulf of Mexico and the name will revert back in a few years' time.

Thanks, Allan. The current administration will be pleased. Really, it interprets itself, whatever one calls it.

I totally forgot this was here. I think there are a bunch of things that need to be revisited in light of dwindling participation. I want to find some way to preserve our testimonies and reconsiderations of what The Way taught. No solid answers here. We'll figure something out.

For anyone considering getting involved with The Way, or if you are and you're having doubts about the group, consider this. It is information you may not have already: The current Way organization still lauds the corrupt VPW as their founding "man of God?" About the Founder - Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille That's enough for me to categorize the current organization as corrupt. Its roots in Wierwille are rotten. Their current "tree" cannot be any good no matter how "nice" any followers might be. Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that. We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath. To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.

Well, it's been over 50 years since I first heard these things, but as I recall, it was covered in what we used to call the "13th" session of PFAL. After the 12th session, in which students *manifested*, there was a separate session on the unforgivable sin. Supposedly, this involved the seed of Satan being irreversibly instilled into people. Born again of the wrong seed, as it were. It was supposed to be the polar opposite of the new birth, and quite different from possession, which could be exorcised. There was lots of talk about many of the people of great influence being "seed boys", and, therefore, irredeemable.(prominent scientists, actors, musicians, world leaders and so forth) Of course, it freaked out lots of people and negated the euphoria of session 12. That's probably why it was eliminated and not revisited until it resurfaced in the Advanced Class teachings. I think it might be included somewhere in the original PFAL collaterals. edit: You can't really accept it as being possible without first believing in "once saved, always saved" because of the element of permanence. It's hard to look back at some of this stuff and not laugh at what a chump I must have been.

So glad to now be after having been unburdened from what has been....

I just wanted to point out for the record that Old Skool was one of the GSers who engaged in the repeated and false accusation that GSCafe had become hostile to Christian points of view. These posts on his own site put his criticisms into a larger context. We maintain that GSC is welcome to all former TWI members, whether you are Christian or not, and we encourage you to explore your faith (or loss thereof) on your terms. We've done our best to develop safe spaces where you may do so, and you can choose the extent to which you want to engage with opposing points of view. Thanks.

The offer of PDFs of VPW's letters to Way Corps is good until April 30, 2025 at 5 pm. Cheers!

Managing expectations is a big part of it. Within that, setting realistic expectations is an important piece. PEACE!

Thank you Rocky and Charlene!!!!!!! If I may share, I had a dream which got me to look at the PRESSURE we were under as wow's and way corpses. But/and your reminder Rocky re: how vp decreed/pontifically asserted that if we only read the Bible and twi materials, we would reap Great Benefits... This really hit me this am. What a mental POWER GRAB!!! OMG!!!!! How naive etc etc I was. What a devious way to get the doctrinal/emotional/spiritual box to close even further around the unsuspecting prey... I allowed myself to be lured into the trap, and then agreed to shut the door TIGHT, even locking it myself, and agreeing to only eat the stinking rotten food that was tossed my way... O M G.

For more from me, visit me on Blogspot. My posts there are FREE. My posts on my own website are FREE also. Charlene Lamy Edge Speaks about The Way International My website is: https://charleneedge.com

https://freedomofmind.com/ https://BITEmodel.com

If a political forum was to start on GSC, I would suggest the focus be on policies and not on politicians.

We might be inching too far out on political thin ice. I'm just an observer, not a moderator.

I think we should call it the Gulf of Clem. No particular reason. I just think it sounds cool. My granddaughter Clara Belle (That's short for Helen) said "Golly, Grandpa Waysider, that's a groovy idea.") These young 'uns are pretty hip, anymore.

You can say that again.

Make some popcorn while you're at it, this may take a while.

Isn't it true that the current Way organization still lauds the corrupt VPW as their founding "man of God?" About the Founder - Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille That's enough for me to categorize the current organization as corrupt. Its roots in Wierwille are rotten. Their current "tree" cannot be any good no matter how "nice" any followers might be. Many of us had first-hand experience with the authoritarian, narcissistic, predatory, abusive plagiarist named Victor Paul Wierwille. We know that he stole most of his teachings that are found on tapes and in his books. Many of those are still used today, or tweaked, or slanted this way or that. We know the women he seduced and raped and silenced. We know the emotional abuse he inflicted on anyone who questioned him. We now understand how cults work and how they make extensive efforts to hide their corrupt histories like the one The Way has and cannot escape. We know that no matter how many fresh coats of paint you slather over filth, the filth is still underneath. To any followers of this organization: ask where the money goes. Ask where the power lies. Ask what happens if you leave the group. Ask what happens if you disagree with the ideology. Think for yourself.

I'm not posting from inside the US, which is why I expect I was asked. In my search, it's clearly "Gulf of Mexico." When I do a search specifically for "Gulf of America", I get the exact same image, which includes the name "Gulf of Mexico" right on the map, and the description says "Gulf of Mexico." Here's what Google said on the subject- Gulf of America name change in the U.S. — what you’ll see in Maps

I got curious and searched for my own address. Along with the map and a shocking street view photo, My search prompted THIS happy little tune. Ahh, the memories.

I looked at 5 and they all had Gulf of Mexico https://www.mapsofworld.com/north-america/

WHAT they teach is as problematic as HOW (H-O-W) they teach it and what they DO with it once they've got it... Bibliolatry ”You can’t go beyond what you’ve been taught.” Jesus's bastard bar mitzvah Four crucified Six denials Fantastic zoological claims about cocks in antiquity Eve the lesbian Thorns Glossolalia "It doesn't matter what you do unless you believe it does." -VPW Greek and Hebrew can be mistranslated in order to MAKE it fit. (See maxim above) Holocaust denial or minimization The unforgivable sin... ...and several hundred others.

Probably most of the old head honchos have died or permanently dropped out of sight. RFR is shortly going to be 85. Bill Greene is still around, and on the board of directors. Donna and Craig a bit younger. Others have departed completely and either set up their own show or gone to CFFM or R&R. Vern I remember as being a really sweet man - but that was 35-40 years ago and who knows what has happened since? The younger folk, such as Oldies references above, may know absolutely nothing about the history as we know it. How would they? TWI isn't going to say anything! It's not so much what they teach - it's what they do. And how they do it.

"W-Why aren’t you talking?” "We’re gonna need more money.” "Why? You were in there for, like, five minutes.” "Dude, they were very convincing!” "Oh… You’re… that guy. Hey, listen, I don’t have any money.” "Do not patronize me, boy!” This is a stand-alone movie, and should not be confused as any sort of sequel to the previous movie- which was so long ago few people remember it even exists. One goof accidentally displayed a clear view of Minneapolis' skyline in what was a movie set in a completely different city.

HUSBAND: "I'm so despondent. Were totally broke because of Abundant Sharing. We'll probably lose the house and car. Children's Services might take away our kids. They might even kick your mother out of the nursing home." WIFE: "Yes, dear, but at least you're not a seed boy."

Not at all...

It doesn't get much more confusing than trying to explain 4 crucified.

Since we're back for the first time in a week, I'm feeling generous. Besides, you would have gotten it on the next try. Rocky IV. Human, you're up. George

Back in business! Don't forget the Donate button. George

What happened between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2? Drum solo

"...emerged into full fruition..." ?

3 things stuck out for me: 1. Hearing "the rightly divided word" used twice reminds me of the "us vs them" bias I held against other Christians. 2. "...expressed by our Founder, Victor Paul Wierwille..." shows how they are lying to their followers' faces about who this man actually was. How corrupt of an organization is that? 3. "Make your plans now and diligently prepare so that nothing hinders your participation in this splendid occasion. Believe big to overcome any obstacles." (Underlining is mine) This is not an invitation but an command wrapped up in sugar-coated propaganda. It makes me wonder what the pressure will be like by every leader on the field to get their people to attend.

Socks, your phrase "external contact" jumps out at me. In my Way experience, the purpose of engaging with people who were not involved in The Way was to recruit them into it. Not be influenced by them to the point that you'd leave The Way or try to change it. Since there were thousands of us involved over many years, there are probably many variations on this theme of "external exposure." Here's a link to what I wrote about things to consider when evaluating Way stories. REVISED Speaking of "Way" Stories ... | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com) Cheers!

"Fact" was not the best word to have used in my post when mentioning how many Christian denominations are in the world. It's what came up first on a simple google search - admittedly, not the most in-depth way to research something. Concerning your mention of stories above, the first gospel was written over 30 years after the life and death of Jesus. (“The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90, and John AD 90–110.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel) Also, “The majority of New Testament scholars also agree that the Gospels do not contain eyewitness accounts; but that they present the theologies of their communities rather than the testimony of eyewitnesses.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels One has to take it on faith when believing the gospels (which contains Jesus' perfect interpretation of the law and the prophets according to the opening post) were inspired by God and not simply stories (imo) passed on by men for most likely self-serving political and/or religious reasons. Remaining on topic of this thread, I think any interpretation of the Bible is that of the person teaching it. Calling it "Jesus' perfect interpretation" is a fallacy.

Or, apparently, EJ Martone, Assembly of God pastor as mentioned above. VPW - no scripture is of any private interpretation (iow - the bible interprets itself) EJM - Jesus is the perfect interpretation of the bible Fact - There are more than 45,000 Christian denominations globally and more than 200 in the U.S., according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity. Which one has Jesus' "perfect" interpretation?

When in doubt, write: The Teacher Box 679 New Knockwurst, Ohio

Did Saint Vic know that he knew that he knew? Depends on what you think he knew. I, personally, think he knew he was running a con. Proof of this is in the POP paper. Saint Vic went to G33r whining that Martindale was "ruining the whole thing.* Just what was the "whole thing?" Upon leaving that meeting, Saint Vic said, "Well bring it back." Notice, in both instances, there was no ta!k of for the glory of God, or the people needing the Word. Just ruining the 'whole thing" and "bringing it back.' Saint Vic was talking about ruining the con and that he wanted to bring it back.

Hello everyone. Been thinking a lot lately about righteousness and wierwille's definition. From The Bible Tells Me So: You are Righteous Now: Is that what righteousness really is? The just shall live by faith. Where in scripture does it ever indicate that we can stand in the presence of God (as if wierwille stood in the presence of God) without any consciousness of sin? Biblically righteousness is a state that was granted to us by our identification with Jesus Christ. It's embodied in the spirit of sonship we receive at the new birth and we are told to walk after the spirit and not after the flesh...but guess what..we all sin...we all relapse back into sinful ways, we even commit a multitude of sins without knowing we are sinning at times. It's the walk of a child of God, the walk of an individual with two natures that are in constant conflict. So what does that have to do with how I feel?...welll... 1 John 3:19-21 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. One of TWO possibilites are listed here...either our heart condemns us or it doesn't and if it doesn't we have confidence towards God...what I see here is an almost child like innocence of the child of God and his relationship with his Father. This spirit of sonship also convicts us of sin, and Jesus said it would do just that. I can personally say that at times I am very convicted of sin and wrongdoing and that feeling of conviction leads me to confession and repentance...so what happened to st vic? Where did he lead us? 1 Timothy 4:1,2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron Ephesians 4:17-20 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; Here's what I think from a lot of consideration on this topic over the years....so let's start putting my ideas once again to the Grease Spot Pinyata of Doctrinal...let's bang some holes here.. Personally I think, based on my limited understanding of scripture, that righteousness is a state given at the new birth and in order for us to walk righteously we put off the old man and put on the new man. Ill refrain from more scripture quotes at the moment but this concept repeats all throughout the Church epistles. (I am no longer a dispensatinalist and no longer ignore the gospels as not addressed to me. It's the Church epistles that reveal what was hidden in God - a new creation in Christ that Christ will to bring to full fruition in the future when he hands the subjugated kingdom back to God - but that work of the new creation is well underway and it's Christ that is leading the efforts as the head of his body) It has nothing to do with how we feel, but we shoud pay close attention to how we feel because the spirit within may very well convict us of sin so we can put it off and walk in newness of life. I think victor paul wierwille's conscience was seared with a hot iron. I believe he was past feeling, and I can understand that fully because it happened to me when I was drunk all the time. Just numbed out and washed up. It's an awful state. I have no desire to sit here and beat on the memory of wierwille, however, it's his example we were given to follow. So, naturally, I was taught to ignore how I feel to the detriment of my own mental/emotional well being. Feelings come and go but the Word of God....yeah...clear as mud no? Let's rumble...

First off, cool post I enjoyed the definitions and perspective. I zereod in on this point though because I think it speaks volumes both in the sense of what TWI teaches people not to do verses the right thing to do based on being righteous. TWI - they frowned (as we all know) heavily on getting involved in our communities calling that sort of involvement "designer causes" and so on. I think what you are doing is a solid way to go. Get involved! Pursue righteous causes, pursue justice - love it! Live rightly and do it in such a manner that is of true service and expresses God's love to our fellow man. TWI had us out selling classes. What better way to love our neighbor as ourself than to be involved on this level you mentioned Rocky! Thanks.

Ah, yeah. Revelation. Direct from God himself. But seriously... we all know how sneaky abuse was, in TWI. And some women know better than others. And we've all heard of the abuses that took place in major denominations, that were covered up for decades.

Hi again Annio, having slept on it – the thought occurred to me that I was more concerned about digging myself out of a hole than listening to what you said...I also realize the shallowness and narrow-mindedness of my previous post...The thought never occurred to me to consider the perspective of evil done TO a person - - or any trauma they were powerless to prevent. In the flow of this thread, I had in mind the three types of people in a harmful and exploitative cult: 1. the predator 2. the facilitator and 3. the victim... ...a facilitator is a person who makes an action or process easy or easier – such as the process of exploiting or hurting others...I was a facilitator in TWI. I was not a predator nor a victim. By wholeheartedly supporting TWI with my finances, volunteer work, spreading their propaganda, and getting others to join this pseudo-Christian organization, I was making the work of the predators a lot easier by hiding the trek to the slaughterhouse from the eyes of the sheep... Facilitators don't necessarily have to know what they're really facilitating – like even a harmful and exploitative cult ...maybe that makes me somewhat of a victim too - getting suckered in to be a facilitator. Perhaps the lack of depth in my previous post came from old facilitator habits – thinking there's an easier way to fix this...I hope you can accept my sincere apology.

I am sorry I ever trusted that evil accomplice

Chris Geer was so inept and confused himself - he was really the perfect tool, literally. No one could have bumbled their way through a so called effort to "help" others better than he did. He made a bull in a china shop seem like a ballet dancer in a field of wheat. I am not the only one who felt upon hearing that he had shown up in Craig's lap with a list of posthumous belly aches from VP that we were in for a long, bumpy, ugly and smelly ride. He's not unlike Lynn and others of that ilk - he admits later rather disingenuously that he was "poorly equipped" to carry out the work he was commissioned to do ("Oh woe is me, the burdened inadequate messenger who tried so hard!") while pointing his fat doughy finger of condemnation at anyone who ever had the misfortune to hear his voice. As with Lynn who raked VP and others over the COALS for their misconduct while dusting himself off as the now humbly and newly regenerated and so conveniently reinvented Teacher who had himself done wrong but who was all mo' better, just like that. I think Geer cast himself in a romantic light, all drama and no substance. I never saw - not one - even a single statement - that stated clearly 1. what he thought was "wrong" with the Way and 2. what anyone was supposed to "do" to fix that. There was plenty wrong with the Way and lots that could be done to fix it but he resisted all efforts to nail it down to specific changes and rather kept pushing an agenda of being 1. "on the Word", 2. Following the "man of God", who was now actually dead and 3. returning to "The Word". He turned any opportunity for positive change into a dithering whirlwind of condemnation and confusion, ultimately doing the exact opposite of what he said he wanted to do. Or exactly what he really wanted to do - shove it in the crotch of the Way Nash people he despised so much one last time, for good. Not to be too harsh, just sayin'....

Even that part of VP's history was plagiarized. It seems VP's story is a restatement of an incident that Billy Graham remembers from his own early years as a minister. I believe it appears, as a recollection, in his 1997 book, Just as I Am. Wierwille knew Graham. I'm sure he must have heard him relate this story at various times.

Yup! Taught the furniture, and my dog. My dog was like a lot of people, only interested in snack time.

Branch leader: How was twig last night? Twig leader: Tremendous! Branch leader: How many people showed up? Twig leader: None. Branch leader: That's tremendous! :P