just what is that supposed to be? the verse numbers make me think you intend it to be scripture. so then i must ask if God gave it to you with all the typos, misspellings and grammatical errors? for god's sake--if you think it's important enough to write down at least proofread it!
just what is that supposed to be? the verse numbers make me think you intend it to be scripture. so then i must ask if God gave it to you with all the typos, misspellings and grammatical errors? for god's sake--if you think it's important enough to write down at least proofread it!
Does anyone else find it ironic that Sprawled Out's post, that berates another poster for his grammatical errors, doesn't even have proper capitolization at the beginning of sentences? There's missing punctuation, and certainly no love. Tsk. Tsk.
Personally, I'll take typos with a dose of love over perfectly executed text any day. Thank you.
By the way - my reference to the verses was in jest - not making fun or harassing. Year2027 understands that. I posted the cutsie faces just so he'd know :) - they're aids in communication when you can't see or hear a speaker. I don't think Year2027 has bulleted his posts before - personally, I like reading them - think of it as long-distance manifestations - something I haven't done in over six years... sorta miss that sometimes...
7. Then the signs of the great day of judgement must begin and the first sign will be all that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ will get up from the dead to walk in the form of fleshy life with a dead spirit to either be judge good or bad at the day of Judgment.
18. The body can die a hundred times but the spirit can not, for the spirit is born dead so if its rose from the dead it strays alive whether the body walks or sits in the grave, the spirits flies in the heaven above.
19. Yes all mankind that ever lived were rose to live again but in the form of a dead spirit unless they received Christ in their lives by not being mark by the mark of dead but by the mark of life Christ in them.
Roy, can you please rephrase the statements above?
It may be me, but # 7 doesn't seem to make much sense. This part in particular....... "...all that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ will get up from the dead to walk in the form of fleshy life with a dead spirit ....." What is the difference between all that were not dead in Christ and all that were alive in Christ? To be "not dead" is to be alive -- isn't it. And why would the alive or the "not dead" need to get up from the dead? Makes little sense.
Roy, it could be a grammar thing, and I don't mean to riduicule you. But when you are claiming that Jesus gave you these words, then you are claiming this to be God's Word in a sense. Therefore, I would expect you to try to get the grammar at least minimally correct to the point were the correct and intended meaning is properly conveyed. Moses had Aaron to speak for him . Do you have anyone that could help you with this?
As far as 18 and 19 go . Can you explain dead spirit a bit more. I am particularly interested in any Bible references that support the idea that the spirit is born dead.
7. Then the signs of the great day of judgement must begin
(we watch for signs for the second coming and some watch for the sign of first coming but some will have to watch for signs of the third coming the day of judgment)
and the first sign will be all that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ
(the first for the coming of the third coming - all mankind that were not part of the dead in Christ from Adam to the last of mankind that die before Christ won over death and the alive in Christ all that received the seed of Christ in them)
will get up from the dead to walk in the form of fleshy life with a dead spirit to either be judge good or bad at the day of Judgment.
(they all have die fleshly all of mankind that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ will rise from death to be either just good or bad at the day of judgment - we know all must die because one can not die a second death until they die the first)
18. The body can die a hundred times but the spirit can not, for the spirit is born dead so if its rose from the dead it strays alive whether the body walks or sits in the grave, the spirits flies in the heaven above.
(the flesh can die over and over but the spirit can only be born dead and be reborn or be replaned but not die again but if the spirit is dead it stays with the body but if alive it flies in the heaven above until it gets a new body)
19. Yes all mankind that ever lived were rose to live again but in the form of a dead spirit unless they received Christ in their lives by not being mark by the mark of dead but by the mark of life Christ in them.
(all mankind that were not dead in Christ or Alive in Christ from Adam up were rose fleshly with a dead spirit unless or until they received Christ in them like we did to have the mark of a Christ while others only have the mark of flesh with a dead spirit you may call natural men)
hope this helps
Do you have anyone that could help you with this?
No I do not have help but I am here to try to help
thank you
Genesis 3 talks about the spiritual death but it part of Adam die does not mean all of Adam die
Some Adam could not pass alone a live spirit so he past alone a dead one
but do I have verese that say it like I do no but its there in the patters of death
1Th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
In verse 16, we have the term term "dead in Christ" which I take to means those Christians that have died.
In your # 7 you say "....and the first sign will be all that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ " ..... then you explain this with "all mankind that were not part of the dead in Christ from Adam to the last of mankind that die before Christ won over death and the alive in Christ all that received the seed of Christ in them.
So then, I if am getting this right, you are using the term "not dead in christ" to mean those who died without Christ, before he came. And you are using the term "alive in christ" to mean those who have died that received the seed of Christ in them.
Here is my problem. The Bible uses the term "dead in Christ" to refer to those who have died that received the seed of Christ, yet you use the term "alive in Christ" to refer to those same people.
Do you see how this may be confusing ?
You used the term "not dead in Christ" to refer to those who died without Christ, where a natural reading would take "not dead in Christ" to mean alive in Christ ( if something is "not dead" then it is alive) when what you are really trying to say is those who died without Christ.
Do you see how this may also be confusing?
Let me paraphrase # 7 for you and see if this is what you were trying to convey:
7. Then the signs of the great day of judgement must begin and the first sign will be that all those who died without Christ before He defeated death along with all those who died in Christ will rise from the dead ....
The dead in Christ Of 1 Th 4:14-17 are the children of God that lived with a dead spirit but by the reaching for the first coming they won a live spirit but could only receive it after Christ won over death
The alive in Christ of 1 Th 4:14-17 are the children of God that received Christ in us
But the people I am talking about will look for a sign to come after we the alive in Christ are in the air with the dead in Christ
every eye has seen Christ and all left is the day of judgment were there either be judge good or bad the good will received Christ in them by judgment but the bad will received death in them by judgment
The dead in Christ was said to mean all those people that die before Christ comes back but see that not to be true
once you become alive in Christ even if your body dies your spirit still lives on People missunderstand because they do not understand the three forms of life and the three forms of death
your paraphrase # 7
7. Then the signs of the great day of judgement must begin and the first sign will be that all those who died without Christ before He defeated death along with all those who died in Christ will rise from the dead ....
No these dead in Christ are not children of God but people who live only with a dead spirit like we had before we received Christ into our lives
all that die over the years and that kill themself at the second coming that were not children of God will rise naturally to await the third coming of Christ the day of judgment
they will have a 1,000 years to repent and begin to reach for the coming of Christ the day of Judgment
some will become children of God and others will not
So the dead in Christ are all children of God that die before Christ won over death
So the alived in Christ are all children of God that received the seed of Christ by beliveing and confessing whether their body alive or dead at this time because they receive a new body
But there will be judgment in Christ or judgment in death
So the judgment in Christ is all that believed and confess after the second coming has past so there day is the day of judgment
So the judgment in death is all those there never repeated of their sins during the second changed to repent
It seems then that you are giving a new definition of who the dead in Christ are in I Thessalonians, as well as those who Paul referred to as "we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord"
You are defining "the dead in Christ" not as Christians who have fallen asleep (died) as Paul puts it but rather as folks before Christ came. You are then defining "we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord" not as only those Christians who are physically alive at his comming, but with them you also include Christians that have physically died.
Roy your definition of who the dead in Christ are does not flow with the context of 1 Thessalonians, niether does your definition of the alive in Christ.
Have you cast the Bible aside in favor of your own prophecies?
Ok I read the book of 1 Thessalonians and look at the context of this book verse by verse
1 Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Tells me this book was wrote unto the church of Thessalonians at the time Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus lived, so I can learn from it but it was not wrote to me personally or any church of my time but the same truths then are still true today
1 Th 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus gives thanks for the people of the church of Thessalonians who they knew personally but we can give thanks for each other in our prayers
1 Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus are remembering with ceasing the work of faith, labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ of the Thessalonians church people in the view of God our Father but we can do each other
1 Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus knows the Thessalonians church brethren who are beloved their election of God but we can be beloved with a election of God
1 Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
For Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus gospel came not unto the Thessalonians church brethren in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and much assurance; as you the Thessalonians church brethren know what manner of men Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were among the Thessalonians church brethren for your sake but we can do all this with each other
I know you are a man that loves God and you can know what kind of man I am as we write to each other
1 Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
the Thessalonians church brethren became followers of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, and the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: but we are followers of our leaders too
look like the context here is Holy Spirit unto church brethren
1 Th 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
So that the Thessalonians church brethren were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia but we can be ensamples to all that come to our board
1 Th 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
For from the Thessalonians church brethren sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing but we can sound out the word of truth unto the whole net
1 Th 1:9 For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
For the Macedonia brethren and the Achaia brethren show of us what manner of entering in Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus had unto the Thessalonians church brethren and how the Thessalonians church brethren turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God but we can help others of our time the same way
1 Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Ye taught Macedonia brethren and the Achaia brethren to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus and the Thessalonians church brethren from the second death to come but we can help each other see this today
1 Th 2:1 For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
For the Thessalonians church brethren know Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus entrance in unto the Thessalonians church brethren that it was not in vain but we can know each other entrance whether out of love or not and hope it not be in vain as it was not this time
1 Th 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
But even after that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as the Thessalonians church brethren know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto the Thessalonians church brethren the gospel of God with much contention as you can speak the gospel to others
1 Th 2:3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
For Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile and your can do the same
1 Th 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
But as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts and you can do the same
1 Th 2:5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloak of covetousness; God is witness:
For neither at any time used Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus flattering words, as the Thessalonians church brethren know, nor a cloak of covetousness; God is witness as you can
1 Th 2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
Nor of men sought Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus glory, neither of the Thessalonians church brethren, nor yet of others, when Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ as you can
1 Th 2:7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:
But Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were gentle among the Thessalonians church brethren, even as a nurse cherisheth her children we can be that way to each other
1 Th 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.
So being affectionately desirous of the Thessalonians church brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were willing to have imparted unto the Thessalonians church brethren, not the gospel of God only, but also Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus own souls, because the Thessalonians church brethren were dear unto Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus as we can be to each other
1 Th 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
For the Thessalonians church brethren remember, brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus would not be chargeable unto any of the Thessalonians church brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus preached unto the Thessalonians church brethren the gospel of God as we can do to others and as others can do for us
1 Th 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
the Thessalonians church brethren are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus behaved ourselves among the Thessalonians church brethren that believe: as we should be able to say to the ones we lead and the ones who lead us should be able to say
Ok the context is Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus sharing with the Thessalonians church brethren with some sub contexts like holy spirit but during the time these brethren of the Thessalonians church live on earth
so the ones called asleep or dead in Christ would people who they may of knew die before the hope came by Jesus the Christ winning over death making a way by making us alive spiritually
if we talk about the hope when was not there in Moses's time but he only reach for that day but we live in that day and can be made alive spiritually before we die but ones like Moses had to be made alive after they fell asleep or die
but I will dig deeper into this book so I will post more soon
but wanted to give you time to look at these so far
1 Th 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,
As the Thessalonians church brethren know how Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus exhorted and comforted and charged every one of the Thessalonians church brethren, as a father doth his children, as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus can each other as we should do to all we meet
1 Th 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
That the Thessalonians church brethren would walk worthy of God, God hath called the Thessalonians church brethren unto God’s kingdom and glory but Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus should walk the same as we should
1 Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
For this cause also thank Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus God without ceasing, because, when the Thessalonians church brethren received the word of God which the Thessalonians church brethren heard of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus , the Thessalonians church brethren received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in the Thessalonians church brethren that believe as we can as we should
1 Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
For the Thessalonians church brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for the Thessalonians church brethren also have suffered like things of the Thessalonians church brethren own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: as we will suffered of ones in our time
1 Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their Jews prophets, and have persecuted the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus ; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: but we should not persecuted any church
1 Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
Forbidding Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. As we should speak
1 Th 2:17 But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.
But Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus , brethren, being taken from the Thessalonians church brethren for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see the Thessalonians church brethren face with great desire. As we should each other
1 Th 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto the Thessalonians church brethren you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
Wherefore Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus would have come unto the Thessalonians church brethren, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus . We should not let Satan hindered us
1 Th 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
For what is Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? As we should be
1 Th 2:20 For ye are our glory and joy.
For the Thessalonians church brethren are Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus glory and joy. As we should see others glory and joy
1 Th 3:1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;
Wherefore when Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus could no longer forbear, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus thought it good to be left at Athens alone; how one can think
1 Th 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish the Thessalonians church brethren, and to comfort the Thessalonians church brethren concerning the Thessalonians church brethren faith: as we can send help by fellow believers to friends of God’s love
Timotheus is a new sub context
1 Th 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for the Thessalonians church brethren know that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus are appointed thereunto. As some should know of us
1 Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
For verily, when Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were with the Thessalonians church brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus told the Thessalonians church brethren before that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and the Thessalonians church brethren know as we will suffer tribulation
1 Th 3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
For this cause, when Paul could no longer forbear, Paul sent to know the Thessalonians church brethren faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted the Thessalonians church brethren, and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus labour be in vain. As we can do for others or others do for us
1 Th 3:6 But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity, and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:
But now when Timotheus came from the Thessalonians church brethren unto Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus , and brought Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus good tidings of the Thessalonians church brethren faith and charity, and that the Thessalonians church brethren have good remembrance of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus always, desiring greatly to see Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus , as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus also to see the Thessalonians church brethren: as we should each other
1 Th 3:7 Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our affliction and distress by your faith:
Therefore, the Thessalonians church brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were comforted over the Thessalonians church brethren in all Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus affliction and distress by the Thessalonians church brethren faith: as we should each other
1 Th 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
For now Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus live, if the Thessalonians church brethren stand fast in the Lord as we should
1 Th 3:9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;
For what thanks can Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus render to God again for the Thessalonians church brethren, for all the joy wherewith Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus joy for the Thessalonians church brethren sakes before our God as we should each other’s church
1 Th 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
Night and day praying exceedingly that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus might see the Thessalonians church brethren face, and might perfect that which is lacking in the Thessalonians church brethren faith? As we should all churches of today
1 Th 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
Now God himself and our Father, and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus Lord Jesus Christ, direct Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus way unto the Thessalonians church brethren as we should have Christ direct our paths to help each other
1 Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
And the Lord make the Thessalonians church brethren to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus do toward the Thessalonians church brethren: as we should all churches
1 Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
To the end he the Lord may stablish the Thessalonians church brethren hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus Father, at the coming of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints as we should
see how personal this is so far simple to the point as we should do there but in a differ time period but soon the 4th chapter were the context is you are looking for
I was more interested in the immediate context of Chapter 4, verses 4-17, not the whole epsitle really. And particularly, anything that can shed light upon who the "dead in Christ" are.
You are saying they are NOT the Christians that died after Christ ascended. I am saying that they ARE. I suggest that the immediate context helps us understand who they are.
I suggest the the immediate begins in verse 13.
1 Th 4:13:
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
Paul is discussing "them which sleep". That is the topic at hand. --Next Verse
1 Th 4:14:
"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
Paul parallels Jesus's death and ressurection with them "which sleep in Jesus". This parallel implies that "sleep" in this verse refers to a physical death like Jesus physical death. "Jesus" is the same as "Christ" and "sleep" is the same as "dead", so then we can say that "sleep in Jesus" is the same as "dead in Christ". Can we not ?
1 Th 4:15:
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
We which are alive and remain (Paul includes himself ) as opposed to those who are alseep [in Jesus]. It would follow then that Paul was refering to the believers then living - the alive [in Jesus]. We could call them the alive in Christ if we wanted to.
1 Th 4:15:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Now we have for the first time (and only time in the Bible) the term "dead in Christ". The context above clearly tells us that these are "them that sleep in Jesus" same as in verse 13.
But what does Paul mean by "in Christ" ? It means those who believed and were converted. Paul uses the term in Christ in the following verse in Romans.
Rom 16:7:
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were
in
Christ
before me.
These cousins of Paul were in Christ before Paul. "Before" inticates a time line. There was a point in time when Paul was not in Christ. Paul was converted to the Christian faith some time after Christ's ascension. Adronicis and Junia some time before Paul. "In Christ" is used at other times to describe people. In each case, the contexts suggests that it refers to Christians.
I can see no evidence that "in Christ" refers to anyone other than someone in the Christian Faith, or to anyone who died before Christ.
In summary the "dead in Christ" are Christians who have died, and "we who are alive and remain" are the Christians who are alive now.
As far as "dead spirits" go it is confusing to me because the terminology is not familiar. I haven't read of "dead spirit" and "dead spirits" in the Bible. I did a search of the King James and found no match for "dead "spirit" or "dead spirits."
But I suppose if someone does not have the spirit of God in them, you might could say they have a "dead spirit". But that's not the same as them actually having a spirit in them and the spirit itself is lifeless (dead) But that is still confusing.
God loves you my dear friend ok here what you been looking for
1 Th 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
Furthermore then Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus beseech the Thessalonians church brethren, and exhort the Thessalonians church brethren by the Lord Jesus, that as the Thessalonians church brethren have received of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus how ye ought to walk and to please God, so the Thessalonians church brethren would abound more and more. As we should
1 Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
For the Thessalonians church brethren know what commandments Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus gave the Thessalonians church brethren by the Lord Jesus as we know what been taught to us
1 Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
For this is the will of God, even the Thessalonians church brethren sanctification, that the Thessalonians church brethren should abstain from fornication: as we should
1 Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
That every one of the Thessalonians church brethren should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; as we should
1 Th 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: as we shall not do in lust too
1 Th 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus also have forewarned the Thessalonians church brethren and testified. As we should testified
1 Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
For God hath not called the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. As we should
1 Th 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus his holy Spirit. As given to us
a sub context of receiving the holy spirit
1 Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
But as touching brotherly love the Thessalonians church brethren need not that Paul write unto the Thessalonians church brethren: for the Thessalonians church brethren yourselves are taught of God to love one another as we are taught too love one another
1 Th 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
And indeed the Thessalonians church brethren do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus beseech the Thessalonians church brethren, brethren, that the Thessalonians church brethren increase more and more as we should other churches
1 Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
And that the Thessalonians church brethren study to be quiet, and to do the Thessalonians church brethren own business, and to work with the Thessalonians church brethren own hands, as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus commanded the Thessalonians church brethren; as we should do
1 Th 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
That the Thessalonians church brethren may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that the Thessalonians church brethren may have lack of nothing. As we shall
1 Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
But I would not have the Thessalonians church brethren to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that the Thessalonians church brethren sorrow not, even as others which have no hope
sub context them who have no hope them who are asleep
From Adam up to Jesus Christ that die before there was hope became asleep by fleshly dying before there was hope but Paul was telling them not to be ignorant concerning them who die before hope came into the world ( look at the time line when people knew some personally who die before hope came into the world)
So the context has a time line and is Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus helping the Thessalonians church brethren understand about them who fall asleep before there was hope
1 Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For if the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with God as he will Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus and the Thessalonians church brethren.
Look they the ones alseep believe Jesus the Christ would come, die, and rise in three days but we believe it has happened and it was over 2,000 years ago
1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For this Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus say unto the Thessalonians church brethren by the word of the Lord, that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus and the Thessalonians church brethren which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep
us that are alive and shall be alive until the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep how spiritually
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus called themself part of the alive in Christ
1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first
as he has descended from heaven at the last trump of God the last breath of Jesus when he said it is finish the second he won over death
when he came down to be seen and that why the apostles saw Moses in the clouds because Moses was one of the ones asleep or dead in Christ which rose first
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Then Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus and the Thessalonians church brethren which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus ever be with the Lord as we will be as part of the alive in Christ
1 Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words as we can
I was more interested in the immediate context of Chapter 4, verses 4-17, not the whole epsitle really. And particularly, anything that can shed light upon who the "dead in Christ" are.
You are saying they are NOT the Christians that died after Christ ascended. I am saying that they ARE. I suggest that the immediate context helps us understand who they are.
1 Th 4:13: "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
Paul is discussing "them which sleep". That is the topic at hand. --Next Verse
1 Th 4:14: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
Paul parallels Jesus's death and ressurection with them "which sleep in Jesus". This parallel implies that "sleep" in this verse refers to a physical death like Jesus physical death. "Jesus" is the same as "Christ" and "sleep" is the same as "dead", so then we can say that "sleep in Jesus" is the same as "dead in Christ". Can we not ?
1 Th 4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
We which are alive and remain (Paul includes himself ) as opposed to those who are alseep [in Jesus]. It would follow then that Paul was refering to the believers then living - the alive [in Jesus]. We could call them the alive in Christ if we wanted to.
Paul not alive in the flesh now but me and you both see that Paul includes himself as a alive in Christ So either God lie or there a error in our understanding
but I say Paul is alive and the last trump for him was his last breath of flesh
Put lets look at time line some
if a man was young about 20 years old at the time Jesus the Christ die and rose even 70 years later they still recall people who die before they were 20 or heard of family members talk about
I see the scriptures you post, then I see your commentary afterwards which simply looks like your personal interpretation of what you think it means. Some of your commentaries look more like a re-write of the scriptures than anything. Roy, that is not what I wanted at all. I wanted you to show, from the context who the "dead in Christ" are. I don't want a scripture re-write or a new translation
Your missing part of the context them that are asleep or dead which no hope know at the time Paul wrote this to the Thessalonians church brethren
Roy, this sentence absolutely makes no sense the way wrote it, but I will ty to fix the gramatical errors for you if I can so we can be on the same page. I will paraphase. If it it wrong then correct me. OK?
"Goey, you are missing part of the context. Them that are asleep or dead which [with] no hope....( incomplete sentence) ..... [Know] understand the time that Paul wrote this to the Thessalonian Church." ( historical context)
I think you are saying that I wasn't taking in to account the time in which this was written. Not so. I just didn't expound on it as it is not really necessary for understanding the "dead in Christ ". Roy this is called the "historical context". In any case we need to get Paul's grammar correct. It is not the "dead in christ" that Paul was refering to as having or not having hope. (V13) It was the living. Paul was comforting the "brethren" (Chrsitians) living with words of hope concerning the dead. Look at it again.
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
That YE sorrow not, as others as others ( non Christians) who have no hope. Paul told them that as Christians they had hope concerning them that sleep ( the dead in Christ). If you want to talk historical context, consider that these folks were living in a pagan world, most of which were former pagans themselves. Pagans held no hope for an afterlife. Below is a commentary by J. Hampton Keathley, III , that explains it pretty well.
As we look at this passage, it is also important that we understand something of the beliefs of the pagan world from which these believers had been redeemed. As verse 13 states, the pagan world had no real hope of life after death. There was an inscription in Thessalonica which read: “After death, no reviving, after the grave, no meeting again.”
Paul was saying the the brethren in Thessalonica that "you are not like the pagans that have no hope".
Concerning Verse 14 you posted:
"I see no parallels here but I see false teaching misslead us." The parallel is clear as a bell Roy. Look again.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
even so
them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Roy, what do you think "even so" means ..... Paul is comparing Jesus ressurection to the ressurection of the dead in Christ. Is it possibly that you don't want to see the relationship? Now, what "false teaching" are you referring to ......and who teaches it ? If you are gonna claim false teaching on this then you had better do your homework and prove it wrong with more than you have offered Roy.
Roy said:
"Paul not alive in the flesh now but me and you both see that Paul includes himself as a alive in Christ So either God lie or there a error in our understanding".
That's an absurd argument Roy. It seems to be your fallback. It is like the old TWI false dilema that basically says, "if you dont see it my way, you are calling God a liar. ... Unacceptable tactics Roy. You can do better than that if you try.
When Paul wrote Thessalonias, of course he was alive. He was "in Christ", And certainly he is now dead. When he was alive he was one of those who "was alive and remained". He alive an he was "in Christ" When he died, he then became one of the "dead in Christ". He sleeps "in Jesus". This is easy to understand and flows nicely with the context and the grammar that Paul used. Roy we don't have to use false dilemas to make our case.
Roy posted:
" ..as he has descended from heaven at the last trump of God the last breath of Jesus when he said it is finish the second he won over death
when he came down to be seen and that why the apostles saw Moses in the clouds because Moses was one of the ones asleep or dead in Christ which rose first.
Roy, have you got the order of things confused a bit? I could be mistaken but I don't think the last trump sounded when Jesus was on the cross and said, "it is finished". The last trump in 1Thess referrs to the second comming of Christ.
AND the apostles NEVER saw Moses "in the clouds". Roy, show me one verse of scripture that even suggests that the apostles saw Moses "in the clouds". Where did this stuff come from?
Recommended Posts
ChasUFarley
Thanks for putting in the verse numbers. Now, I'll know how to quote you accurately, when someone says, "chapter and verse?!"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved ChasUFarley
God loves you my dear friend
I glad you like it that way and feel free to quote me any time
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
But what book is it from???
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
Why, the Book of Roy, of course!
:)
Now, get crackin' on those retemories!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved dmiller and ChasUFarley
God loves you two
I like the book of Roy and I guess the chapter is 03-27-2006
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sprawled out
just what is that supposed to be? the verse numbers make me think you intend it to be scripture. so then i must ask if God gave it to you with all the typos, misspellings and grammatical errors? for god's sake--if you think it's important enough to write down at least proofread it!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
2027 is a real god loving and people loving person
i would suggest you back off spralwedout
a holy kiss to you 2027 although i don't always agree with you i feel you are a holy man
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
Does anyone else find it ironic that Sprawled Out's post, that berates another poster for his grammatical errors, doesn't even have proper capitolization at the beginning of sentences? There's missing punctuation, and certainly no love. Tsk. Tsk.
Personally, I'll take typos with a dose of love over perfectly executed text any day. Thank you.
By the way - my reference to the verses was in jest - not making fun or harassing. Year2027 understands that. I posted the cutsie faces just so he'd know :) - they're aids in communication when you can't see or hear a speaker. I don't think Year2027 has bulleted his posts before - personally, I like reading them - think of it as long-distance manifestations - something I haven't done in over six years... sorta miss that sometimes...
Holy air smooches back at cha'all
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Dead spirit? Dead spirits? Never heard that before.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved sprawled out
God loves you
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
God loves you my dear friend
thank you you for the holy kiss
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved ChasUFarley
God loves you my dear friend
I glad you enjoy reading them thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved Goey
God loves you my friend
Yes spiritual life is like a dead flower on a plant it there there until it falls off long after death
but a person can have dead neves and not lose the neve
hope this helps you see what a dead spirit would be like
I glad you got dead spirit in the open
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Roy, can you please rephrase the statements above?
It may be me, but # 7 doesn't seem to make much sense. This part in particular....... "...all that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ will get up from the dead to walk in the form of fleshy life with a dead spirit ....." What is the difference between all that were not dead in Christ and all that were alive in Christ? To be "not dead" is to be alive -- isn't it. And why would the alive or the "not dead" need to get up from the dead? Makes little sense.
Roy, it could be a grammar thing, and I don't mean to riduicule you. But when you are claiming that Jesus gave you these words, then you are claiming this to be God's Word in a sense. Therefore, I would expect you to try to get the grammar at least minimally correct to the point were the correct and intended meaning is properly conveyed. Moses had Aaron to speak for him . Do you have anyone that could help you with this?
As far as 18 and 19 go . Can you explain dead spirit a bit more. I am particularly interested in any Bible references that support the idea that the spirit is born dead.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved Goey
God loves you my dear friend
Ok I try to help
7. Then the signs of the great day of judgement must begin
(we watch for signs for the second coming and some watch for the sign of first coming but some will have to watch for signs of the third coming the day of judgment)
and the first sign will be all that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ
(the first for the coming of the third coming - all mankind that were not part of the dead in Christ from Adam to the last of mankind that die before Christ won over death and the alive in Christ all that received the seed of Christ in them)
will get up from the dead to walk in the form of fleshy life with a dead spirit to either be judge good or bad at the day of Judgment.
(they all have die fleshly all of mankind that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ will rise from death to be either just good or bad at the day of judgment - we know all must die because one can not die a second death until they die the first)
18. The body can die a hundred times but the spirit can not, for the spirit is born dead so if its rose from the dead it strays alive whether the body walks or sits in the grave, the spirits flies in the heaven above.
(the flesh can die over and over but the spirit can only be born dead and be reborn or be replaned but not die again but if the spirit is dead it stays with the body but if alive it flies in the heaven above until it gets a new body)
19. Yes all mankind that ever lived were rose to live again but in the form of a dead spirit unless they received Christ in their lives by not being mark by the mark of dead but by the mark of life Christ in them.
(all mankind that were not dead in Christ or Alive in Christ from Adam up were rose fleshly with a dead spirit unless or until they received Christ in them like we did to have the mark of a Christ while others only have the mark of flesh with a dead spirit you may call natural men)
hope this helps
Do you have anyone that could help you with this?
No I do not have help but I am here to try to help
thank you
Genesis 3 talks about the spiritual death but it part of Adam die does not mean all of Adam die
Some Adam could not pass alone a live spirit so he past alone a dead one
but do I have verese that say it like I do no but its there in the patters of death
when the body dies parts can still be used
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Roy,
Here is what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians.
1Th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
In verse 16, we have the term term "dead in Christ" which I take to means those Christians that have died.
In your # 7 you say "....and the first sign will be all that were not dead in Christ or alive in Christ " ..... then you explain this with "all mankind that were not part of the dead in Christ from Adam to the last of mankind that die before Christ won over death and the alive in Christ all that received the seed of Christ in them.
So then, I if am getting this right, you are using the term "not dead in christ" to mean those who died without Christ, before he came. And you are using the term "alive in christ" to mean those who have died that received the seed of Christ in them.
Here is my problem. The Bible uses the term "dead in Christ" to refer to those who have died that received the seed of Christ, yet you use the term "alive in Christ" to refer to those same people.
Do you see how this may be confusing ?
You used the term "not dead in Christ" to refer to those who died without Christ, where a natural reading would take "not dead in Christ" to mean alive in Christ ( if something is "not dead" then it is alive) when what you are really trying to say is those who died without Christ.
Do you see how this may also be confusing?
Let me paraphrase # 7 for you and see if this is what you were trying to convey:
7. Then the signs of the great day of judgement must begin and the first sign will be that all those who died without Christ before He defeated death along with all those who died in Christ will rise from the dead ....
Roy is this what you mean?
Edited by GoeyLink to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved Goey
God loves you my dear friend
The dead in Christ Of 1 Th 4:14-17 are the children of God that lived with a dead spirit but by the reaching for the first coming they won a live spirit but could only receive it after Christ won over death
The alive in Christ of 1 Th 4:14-17 are the children of God that received Christ in us
But the people I am talking about will look for a sign to come after we the alive in Christ are in the air with the dead in Christ
every eye has seen Christ and all left is the day of judgment were there either be judge good or bad the good will received Christ in them by judgment but the bad will received death in them by judgment
The dead in Christ was said to mean all those people that die before Christ comes back but see that not to be true
once you become alive in Christ even if your body dies your spirit still lives on People missunderstand because they do not understand the three forms of life and the three forms of death
your paraphrase # 7
7. Then the signs of the great day of judgement must begin and the first sign will be that all those who died without Christ before He defeated death along with all those who died in Christ will rise from the dead ....
No these dead in Christ are not children of God but people who live only with a dead spirit like we had before we received Christ into our lives
all that die over the years and that kill themself at the second coming that were not children of God will rise naturally to await the third coming of Christ the day of judgment
they will have a 1,000 years to repent and begin to reach for the coming of Christ the day of Judgment
some will become children of God and others will not
So the dead in Christ are all children of God that die before Christ won over death
So the alived in Christ are all children of God that received the seed of Christ by beliveing and confessing whether their body alive or dead at this time because they receive a new body
But there will be judgment in Christ or judgment in death
So the judgment in Christ is all that believed and confess after the second coming has past so there day is the day of judgment
So the judgment in death is all those there never repeated of their sins during the second changed to repent
thank you
hope this helps
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Ok Roy, I see what you are saying.
It seems then that you are giving a new definition of who the dead in Christ are in I Thessalonians, as well as those who Paul referred to as "we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord"
You are defining "the dead in Christ" not as Christians who have fallen asleep (died) as Paul puts it but rather as folks before Christ came. You are then defining "we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord" not as only those Christians who are physically alive at his comming, but with them you also include Christians that have physically died.
Roy your definition of who the dead in Christ are does not flow with the context of 1 Thessalonians, niether does your definition of the alive in Christ.
Have you cast the Bible aside in favor of your own prophecies?
Edited by GoeyLink to comment
Share on other sites
ckmkeon
I just love that, I think it is wonderful putting God First I think I will try it.. If it is ok with you.
God Bless
CK
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved Goey
God loves you my dear friend
I reread for context and I see my context works but I doing a deep study of it will share it with all soon give me a day or so
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved Ckmkeon
God loves you my dear friend
Feel free to use it
thank you
any thing I write is free for all to use any way they want
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved Goey
God loves you my dear friend
Ok I read the book of 1 Thessalonians and look at the context of this book verse by verse
1 Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Tells me this book was wrote unto the church of Thessalonians at the time Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus lived, so I can learn from it but it was not wrote to me personally or any church of my time but the same truths then are still true today
1 Th 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus gives thanks for the people of the church of Thessalonians who they knew personally but we can give thanks for each other in our prayers
1 Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus are remembering with ceasing the work of faith, labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ of the Thessalonians church people in the view of God our Father but we can do each other
1 Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus knows the Thessalonians church brethren who are beloved their election of God but we can be beloved with a election of God
1 Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
For Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus gospel came not unto the Thessalonians church brethren in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and much assurance; as you the Thessalonians church brethren know what manner of men Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were among the Thessalonians church brethren for your sake but we can do all this with each other
I know you are a man that loves God and you can know what kind of man I am as we write to each other
1 Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
the Thessalonians church brethren became followers of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, and the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: but we are followers of our leaders too
look like the context here is Holy Spirit unto church brethren
1 Th 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
So that the Thessalonians church brethren were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia but we can be ensamples to all that come to our board
1 Th 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
For from the Thessalonians church brethren sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing but we can sound out the word of truth unto the whole net
1 Th 1:9 For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
For the Macedonia brethren and the Achaia brethren show of us what manner of entering in Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus had unto the Thessalonians church brethren and how the Thessalonians church brethren turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God but we can help others of our time the same way
1 Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Ye taught Macedonia brethren and the Achaia brethren to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus and the Thessalonians church brethren from the second death to come but we can help each other see this today
1 Th 2:1 For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
For the Thessalonians church brethren know Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus entrance in unto the Thessalonians church brethren that it was not in vain but we can know each other entrance whether out of love or not and hope it not be in vain as it was not this time
1 Th 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
But even after that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as the Thessalonians church brethren know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto the Thessalonians church brethren the gospel of God with much contention as you can speak the gospel to others
1 Th 2:3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
For Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile and your can do the same
1 Th 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
But as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts and you can do the same
1 Th 2:5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloak of covetousness; God is witness:
For neither at any time used Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus flattering words, as the Thessalonians church brethren know, nor a cloak of covetousness; God is witness as you can
1 Th 2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
Nor of men sought Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus glory, neither of the Thessalonians church brethren, nor yet of others, when Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ as you can
1 Th 2:7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:
But Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were gentle among the Thessalonians church brethren, even as a nurse cherisheth her children we can be that way to each other
1 Th 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.
So being affectionately desirous of the Thessalonians church brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were willing to have imparted unto the Thessalonians church brethren, not the gospel of God only, but also Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus own souls, because the Thessalonians church brethren were dear unto Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus as we can be to each other
1 Th 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
For the Thessalonians church brethren remember, brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus would not be chargeable unto any of the Thessalonians church brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus preached unto the Thessalonians church brethren the gospel of God as we can do to others and as others can do for us
1 Th 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
the Thessalonians church brethren are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus behaved ourselves among the Thessalonians church brethren that believe: as we should be able to say to the ones we lead and the ones who lead us should be able to say
Ok the context is Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus sharing with the Thessalonians church brethren with some sub contexts like holy spirit but during the time these brethren of the Thessalonians church live on earth
so the ones called asleep or dead in Christ would people who they may of knew die before the hope came by Jesus the Christ winning over death making a way by making us alive spiritually
if we talk about the hope when was not there in Moses's time but he only reach for that day but we live in that day and can be made alive spiritually before we die but ones like Moses had to be made alive after they fell asleep or die
but I will dig deeper into this book so I will post more soon
but wanted to give you time to look at these so far
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved Goey
God loves you my dear friend
ok lets see more
1 Th 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,
As the Thessalonians church brethren know how Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus exhorted and comforted and charged every one of the Thessalonians church brethren, as a father doth his children, as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus can each other as we should do to all we meet
1 Th 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
That the Thessalonians church brethren would walk worthy of God, God hath called the Thessalonians church brethren unto God’s kingdom and glory but Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus should walk the same as we should
1 Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
For this cause also thank Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus God without ceasing, because, when the Thessalonians church brethren received the word of God which the Thessalonians church brethren heard of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus , the Thessalonians church brethren received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in the Thessalonians church brethren that believe as we can as we should
1 Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
For the Thessalonians church brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for the Thessalonians church brethren also have suffered like things of the Thessalonians church brethren own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: as we will suffered of ones in our time
1 Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their Jews prophets, and have persecuted the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus ; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: but we should not persecuted any church
1 Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
Forbidding Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. As we should speak
1 Th 2:17 But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.
But Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus , brethren, being taken from the Thessalonians church brethren for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see the Thessalonians church brethren face with great desire. As we should each other
1 Th 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto the Thessalonians church brethren you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
Wherefore Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus would have come unto the Thessalonians church brethren, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus . We should not let Satan hindered us
1 Th 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
For what is Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? As we should be
1 Th 2:20 For ye are our glory and joy.
For the Thessalonians church brethren are Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus glory and joy. As we should see others glory and joy
1 Th 3:1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;
Wherefore when Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus could no longer forbear, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus thought it good to be left at Athens alone; how one can think
1 Th 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish the Thessalonians church brethren, and to comfort the Thessalonians church brethren concerning the Thessalonians church brethren faith: as we can send help by fellow believers to friends of God’s love
Timotheus is a new sub context
1 Th 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for the Thessalonians church brethren know that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus are appointed thereunto. As some should know of us
1 Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
For verily, when Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were with the Thessalonians church brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus told the Thessalonians church brethren before that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and the Thessalonians church brethren know as we will suffer tribulation
1 Th 3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
For this cause, when Paul could no longer forbear, Paul sent to know the Thessalonians church brethren faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted the Thessalonians church brethren, and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus labour be in vain. As we can do for others or others do for us
1 Th 3:6 But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity, and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:
But now when Timotheus came from the Thessalonians church brethren unto Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus , and brought Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus good tidings of the Thessalonians church brethren faith and charity, and that the Thessalonians church brethren have good remembrance of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus always, desiring greatly to see Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus , as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus also to see the Thessalonians church brethren: as we should each other
1 Th 3:7 Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our affliction and distress by your faith:
Therefore, the Thessalonians church brethren, Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus were comforted over the Thessalonians church brethren in all Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus affliction and distress by the Thessalonians church brethren faith: as we should each other
1 Th 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
For now Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus live, if the Thessalonians church brethren stand fast in the Lord as we should
1 Th 3:9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;
For what thanks can Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus render to God again for the Thessalonians church brethren, for all the joy wherewith Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus joy for the Thessalonians church brethren sakes before our God as we should each other’s church
1 Th 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
Night and day praying exceedingly that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus might see the Thessalonians church brethren face, and might perfect that which is lacking in the Thessalonians church brethren faith? As we should all churches of today
1 Th 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
Now God himself and our Father, and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus Lord Jesus Christ, direct Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus way unto the Thessalonians church brethren as we should have Christ direct our paths to help each other
1 Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
And the Lord make the Thessalonians church brethren to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus do toward the Thessalonians church brethren: as we should all churches
1 Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
To the end he the Lord may stablish the Thessalonians church brethren hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus Father, at the coming of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints as we should
see how personal this is so far simple to the point as we should do there but in a differ time period but soon the 4th chapter were the context is you are looking for
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Roy,
I was more interested in the immediate context of Chapter 4, verses 4-17, not the whole epsitle really. And particularly, anything that can shed light upon who the "dead in Christ" are.
You are saying they are NOT the Christians that died after Christ ascended. I am saying that they ARE. I suggest that the immediate context helps us understand who they are.
I suggest the the immediate begins in verse 13.
Paul is discussing "them which sleep". That is the topic at hand. --Next Verse
Paul parallels Jesus's death and ressurection with them "which sleep in Jesus". This parallel implies that "sleep" in this verse refers to a physical death like Jesus physical death. "Jesus" is the same as "Christ" and "sleep" is the same as "dead", so then we can say that "sleep in Jesus" is the same as "dead in Christ". Can we not ?
We which are alive and remain (Paul includes himself ) as opposed to those who are alseep [in Jesus]. It would follow then that Paul was refering to the believers then living - the alive [in Jesus]. We could call them the alive in Christ if we wanted to.
Now we have for the first time (and only time in the Bible) the term "dead in Christ". The context above clearly tells us that these are "them that sleep in Jesus" same as in verse 13.
But what does Paul mean by "in Christ" ? It means those who believed and were converted. Paul uses the term in Christ in the following verse in Romans.
These cousins of Paul were in Christ before Paul. "Before" inticates a time line. There was a point in time when Paul was not in Christ. Paul was converted to the Christian faith some time after Christ's ascension. Adronicis and Junia some time before Paul. "In Christ" is used at other times to describe people. In each case, the contexts suggests that it refers to Christians.
I can see no evidence that "in Christ" refers to anyone other than someone in the Christian Faith, or to anyone who died before Christ.
In summary the "dead in Christ" are Christians who have died, and "we who are alive and remain" are the Christians who are alive now.
As far as "dead spirits" go it is confusing to me because the terminology is not familiar. I haven't read of "dead spirit" and "dead spirits" in the Bible. I did a search of the King James and found no match for "dead "spirit" or "dead spirits."
But I suppose if someone does not have the spirit of God in them, you might could say they have a "dead spirit". But that's not the same as them actually having a spirit in them and the spirit itself is lifeless (dead) But that is still confusing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved Goey
God loves you my dear friend ok here what you been looking for
1 Th 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
Furthermore then Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus beseech the Thessalonians church brethren, and exhort the Thessalonians church brethren by the Lord Jesus, that as the Thessalonians church brethren have received of Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus how ye ought to walk and to please God, so the Thessalonians church brethren would abound more and more. As we should
1 Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
For the Thessalonians church brethren know what commandments Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus gave the Thessalonians church brethren by the Lord Jesus as we know what been taught to us
1 Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
For this is the will of God, even the Thessalonians church brethren sanctification, that the Thessalonians church brethren should abstain from fornication: as we should
1 Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
That every one of the Thessalonians church brethren should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; as we should
1 Th 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: as we shall not do in lust too
1 Th 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus also have forewarned the Thessalonians church brethren and testified. As we should testified
1 Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
For God hath not called the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. As we should
1 Th 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus his holy Spirit. As given to us
a sub context of receiving the holy spirit
1 Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
But as touching brotherly love the Thessalonians church brethren need not that Paul write unto the Thessalonians church brethren: for the Thessalonians church brethren yourselves are taught of God to love one another as we are taught too love one another
1 Th 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
And indeed the Thessalonians church brethren do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus beseech the Thessalonians church brethren, brethren, that the Thessalonians church brethren increase more and more as we should other churches
1 Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
And that the Thessalonians church brethren study to be quiet, and to do the Thessalonians church brethren own business, and to work with the Thessalonians church brethren own hands, as Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus commanded the Thessalonians church brethren; as we should do
1 Th 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
That the Thessalonians church brethren may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that the Thessalonians church brethren may have lack of nothing. As we shall
1 Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
But I would not have the Thessalonians church brethren to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that the Thessalonians church brethren sorrow not, even as others which have no hope
sub context them who have no hope them who are asleep
From Adam up to Jesus Christ that die before there was hope became asleep by fleshly dying before there was hope but Paul was telling them not to be ignorant concerning them who die before hope came into the world ( look at the time line when people knew some personally who die before hope came into the world)
So the context has a time line and is Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus helping the Thessalonians church brethren understand about them who fall asleep before there was hope
1 Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For if the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with God as he will Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus and the Thessalonians church brethren.
Look they the ones alseep believe Jesus the Christ would come, die, and rise in three days but we believe it has happened and it was over 2,000 years ago
1 Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For this Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus say unto the Thessalonians church brethren by the word of the Lord, that Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus and the Thessalonians church brethren which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep
us that are alive and shall be alive until the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep how spiritually
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus called themself part of the alive in Christ
1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first
as he has descended from heaven at the last trump of God the last breath of Jesus when he said it is finish the second he won over death
when he came down to be seen and that why the apostles saw Moses in the clouds because Moses was one of the ones asleep or dead in Christ which rose first
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Then Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus and the Thessalonians church brethren which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall the Thessalonians church brethren and Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus ever be with the Lord as we will be as part of the alive in Christ
1 Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words as we can
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved Goey
God loves you my dear friend
Goey wrote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was more interested in the immediate context of Chapter 4, verses 4-17, not the whole epsitle really. And particularly, anything that can shed light upon who the "dead in Christ" are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I know that but we want the complete context plus the sub contexts with the time line
Goey wrote
------------------------------------------------------------------
You are saying they are NOT the Christians that died after Christ ascended. I am saying that they ARE. I suggest that the immediate context helps us understand who they are.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
but I saying we need the whole context of the book the get the picture Paul is giving us and them
you added
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest the the immediate begins in verse 13.
1 Th 4:13: "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
Paul is discussing "them which sleep". That is the topic at hand. --Next Verse
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Your missing part of the context them that are asleep or dead which no hope know at the time Paul wrote this to the Thessalonians church brethren
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Th 4:14: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
Paul parallels Jesus's death and ressurection with them "which sleep in Jesus". This parallel implies that "sleep" in this verse refers to a physical death like Jesus physical death. "Jesus" is the same as "Christ" and "sleep" is the same as "dead", so then we can say that "sleep in Jesus" is the same as "dead in Christ". Can we not ?
----------------------------------------------------------------
I see no parallels here but I see false teaching misslead us
you added
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Th 4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
We which are alive and remain (Paul includes himself ) as opposed to those who are alseep [in Jesus]. It would follow then that Paul was refering to the believers then living - the alive [in Jesus]. We could call them the alive in Christ if we wanted to.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul not alive in the flesh now but me and you both see that Paul includes himself as a alive in Christ So either God lie or there a error in our understanding
but I say Paul is alive and the last trump for him was his last breath of flesh
Put lets look at time line some
if a man was young about 20 years old at the time Jesus the Christ die and rose even 70 years later they still recall people who die before they were 20 or heard of family members talk about
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Roy,
I see the scriptures you post, then I see your commentary afterwards which simply looks like your personal interpretation of what you think it means. Some of your commentaries look more like a re-write of the scriptures than anything. Roy, that is not what I wanted at all. I wanted you to show, from the context who the "dead in Christ" are. I don't want a scripture re-write or a new translation
Roy, this sentence absolutely makes no sense the way wrote it, but I will ty to fix the gramatical errors for you if I can so we can be on the same page. I will paraphase. If it it wrong then correct me. OK?I think you are saying that I wasn't taking in to account the time in which this was written. Not so. I just didn't expound on it as it is not really necessary for understanding the "dead in Christ ". Roy this is called the "historical context". In any case we need to get Paul's grammar correct. It is not the "dead in christ" that Paul was refering to as having or not having hope. (V13) It was the living. Paul was comforting the "brethren" (Chrsitians) living with words of hope concerning the dead. Look at it again.
That YE sorrow not, as others as others ( non Christians) who have no hope. Paul told them that as Christians they had hope concerning them that sleep ( the dead in Christ). If you want to talk historical context, consider that these folks were living in a pagan world, most of which were former pagans themselves. Pagans held no hope for an afterlife. Below is a commentary by J. Hampton Keathley, III , that explains it pretty well.
Paul was saying the the brethren in Thessalonica that "you are not like the pagans that have no hope".
Concerning Verse 14 you posted:
Roy, what do you think "even so" means ..... Paul is comparing Jesus ressurection to the ressurection of the dead in Christ. Is it possibly that you don't want to see the relationship? Now, what "false teaching" are you referring to ......and who teaches it ? If you are gonna claim false teaching on this then you had better do your homework and prove it wrong with more than you have offered Roy.
Roy said:
That's an absurd argument Roy. It seems to be your fallback. It is like the old TWI false dilema that basically says, "if you dont see it my way, you are calling God a liar. ... Unacceptable tactics Roy. You can do better than that if you try.
When Paul wrote Thessalonias, of course he was alive. He was "in Christ", And certainly he is now dead. When he was alive he was one of those who "was alive and remained". He alive an he was "in Christ" When he died, he then became one of the "dead in Christ". He sleeps "in Jesus". This is easy to understand and flows nicely with the context and the grammar that Paul used. Roy we don't have to use false dilemas to make our case.
Roy posted:
Roy, have you got the order of things confused a bit? I could be mistaken but I don't think the last trump sounded when Jesus was on the cross and said, "it is finished". The last trump in 1Thess referrs to the second comming of Christ.
AND the apostles NEVER saw Moses "in the clouds". Roy, show me one verse of scripture that even suggests that the apostles saw Moses "in the clouds". Where did this stuff come from?
Edited by GoeyLink to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
lol...i cant tell who is in over their head more...Roy or Goey
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.