Why you can't sweep it under the carpet

[T-Bone]

This is going to be a different kind of post for me. Here I was thinking I'm handling things pretty well, especially after chiming in on "Chunks of TWI Emotional Intrusion." I've been reading "My Story" posts and "adultery vs. soul stealing." I thought I'd come along way since I left TWI years ago. But I'll tell you what – it's almost like the first time I realized I'd been tricked by TWI. This rant is for the benefit of three. 1. me – I just need to get it out – I'm trying to focus my rage. 2. TWI spies [and I mean that in a nice way] that check out this site. 3. For guys that have a hard time believing this happened.

You know, first time around realizing PFAL was NOT God-breathed was a hard and bitter pill to swallow. But now – and it's only been a few days – the ugliness, the creepiness, the devilishness of the sex scandals has dropped on me like a ton of bricks. I will tell you why I think you can't sweep it under the carpet.

I'm royally p---d off because I thought I figured out enough of this puzzle intellectually – guess I'm a slooooow learner. My wife had been going to Grease Spot for a few years – sharing a few things, even the sexual predator stuff with me. I don't think I believed it – I mean really believed it. Denial - it was my money that supported them! My time and energy represented them. And shi+ fire bi+ch – realizing that someone I got into TWI became a victim!

One of the first shots that started chipping away my unbelief was my wife told me that when she was a corps buddy for Don W he greeted her with a French kiss – I mean it was not the biblical holy effin kiss greeting! What is that?!?! Well, purely conjecture here – but if I were a sexual predator and can't read people's minds – I'd test the waters a little bit – French kiss somebody – and check out her reaction. If she freaks – "hey, it's a holy kiss – what's wrong with you?"

Okay – maybe it's just me – or did most women have the "aha moment" sooner than guys when this sex s---t hit the fan? I think women are usually more aware of the tactics of pick-up artists. When this crap came out – their feminine processors played back countless little incidents like the one my wife experienced – and said "yup – I'm not surprised." Like I said I'm a slow learner – but I'm learning! As I'm reading some of those posts I started recalling some things. Overhearing a lady that worked the Back Room at the Campus say LCM preferred blondes work in the back room. What effin difference does it make what color her hair is? And why does it have to be a woman? One memory hit me real hard – VPW having a pajama party at our campus. He shows us a porn movie [a dog and a woman]. He invites one young lady up to the front to show her a porn pen he has . What do you think of that?!?! How appropriate is that? Imagine your local pastor having a sleepover and doing things like that? Kind of scary – okay make it an uncle or a neighbor – yeccchhh – still creepy. Oh – wait I forgot one more little sordid detail – I neglected to tell you this was the Indiana Campus – the Family Corps! There were teenagers in this pajama party. Oooops – I'm sorry another little detail – the young lady VPW was showing the porn pen to – I think she was 16. Oh – I can hear it now – a TWI screw-with-your-head-ism – "Get your head out of the gutter – I've just so renewed my mind that I don't think like that." Yeah, you just so f---d your conscience that it doesn't bother you.

Why can't this be swept under the carpet? "Why? – I'll tell you why…"The Bible shows God's will – how God WANTS the church to handle an offended brother – it's Matthew 18: 15-17. It starts out initially as a one-on-one thing between the offender and offended. If they're unable to work things out – then you bring in 1 or 2 more witnesses. And if THAT don't settle it – you take it to the WHOLE church. If the offender STILL refuses to hear – he gets the boot. They've stalled out at the first step of Matthew 18: 15-17. All you hear is silence – as in - cover up or dismissing the victims as possessed. Oh, you think this would have destroyed the integrity of the Word or of TWI – if we had a big church council to hear all sides. Ever thought about Acts 5 where Ananias and Sapphira said they were giving the church the full amount of money they got from selling something. They both keel over after Peter by revelation catches them in a lie. Verse 11 wraps it up with "so great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things." Do you think God is kinda concerned with His church having some integrity?

"So what?" – some claim it's the new and improved TWI. "You bring up ancient history, even if there's something to what you say – VPW and LCM are gone. We do things a lot different around here now." It may be ancient history to some but the clock stopped when they stopped obeying Matthew 18 – it's like it happened yesterday.

I'm angry and upset at the leadership that still supports TWI. I believe there are many loving, genuine Christians still in their ranks. I don't expect them to believe all the sex crap. I figure there's a lot of guys thick-headed like I was - that aren't in the habit of noticing details/clues into someone's character ["blinded by the bs"]. But I'm challenging them to do the right thing, the Will of God thing on these scandals or alleged scandals, or whatever you want to call them – and bring it before the church – let God working in His church straighten out the mess, figure out who's lying, and make things right! Your silence, inaction, blame-shifting, and avoidance condones sin! What do you think the way TWI has been handling all this controversy communicates to people? "Don't you dare question us. We are above the law. We don't care what you think. If you think anything other than the Word about us you're wrong."

It's doing more damage by not handling this right. Action [or inaction] speaks louder than words! You know, we can intellectualize, debate, and talk, talk, talk all we want. I think this is one of those times when we're supposed to get off our fat a$$es, get furious and take care of business God's way! One of those Jesus-in-the-Temple-with-a-can-of-whup-a$$ times.

[rascal]

((((tbone)))) as to whether or not women picked up on it easier? Not THIS one....I had no clue.

I didn`t find out about this stuff untill after I left from some friends.

There was a *suicide* thread not to long a that has some eye opening personal first hand accounts of women here at greasespot and vpw`s despicable conduct.

The stories MUSN`T be swept under the rug because they show the TRUE nature of vpw and bring to light that a man who indulged in hurting so many....is not trustworthey, nor is can his perspective be relied upon.

Learning of this conduct was what caused the scales to FINALLY begin to fall from my eyes. My first steps towards freedom.

[ex10]

Hey T-Bone

All I can say, is that for me, when John S. wrote his adultery paper, and then got fired and banished, one of the first things I did was read it, along with the intro he sent with it, explaining his reasons for writing it.

That was the beginning of my "aha" moments. And knowing that Geer was behind his firing, and all the other fallout from the paper, and knowing that Geer had a personal interest in covering up the adultery, well, that's all it took for me to realized that the adultery problem would NEVER be addressed by the inmates running the asylum.

I also realized that it was the doctrine (and the culture of the group that flowed from the belief system that TWI promulgated) which was responsible for the acceptance of the rampant adultery by some of the "leaders" in the know.

But the problem was then, and still is now, people didn't/don't want to believe it. Anybody who brought it up, or tryed to talk about it, was immediately labeled as a "possessed cop-out". I guess that's why I still hang around this place. "The truth is out there."

As always, my opinion.

And I should add, it took me years, YEARS to figure out the depth of the depravity and abuse.

Edited March 2, 2006 by ex10

[T-Bone]

Rascal, I started reading the Suicide in the Way thread -could only take so much...I'm just sitting here dumbfounded - you talked about it being like scales falling from your eyes...For me it's layers Bagpipes[/b] put it too]. peeling off layers and layers of ...bs.

Ex10, I read John's Adultery paper a long time ago - I guess I'm admitting how dumb and in-denial I was. I think I must have been afraid to really consider the possibility of such widespread sexual abuse happening. It was hard enough for me to finally distinguish between PFAL and the Bible - and now I'm opening my eyes and peering into "the depth of the depravity and abuse." ... Geez... I gotta take a break - do they serve Long Island Ice Tea at the Cafe?

[GrouchoMarxJr]

T-Bone...if you slip into the back room you will find a complete liquor cabinet here at the cafe.

I would suggest something strong to wash down the taste of what these degenerates were doing...

It was rampant and it was disgusting...a lot of wonderful folks were hurt very badly. The vast majority of the rank and file were innocent and sincere but most of the "elite" leaders were in on it....those who were not and spoke up were shown the door.

My knowledge of what went on goes beyond these various posts...I have talked personally to many folks with first hand experiences. It's mind boggling to say the least...

[ex10]

Ok, I'm going to try to explain something, but I don't know if I can do a good job or not. But it's worth trying.

When someone is victimized in a sexual way, whether it be a child, adolescent, adult, there is a great deal of shame that goes along with it.

Many times victims are told that if they talk, others will be hurt, no one will understand, this is special between just us, you asked for it---------you get the idea. The victim gets shamed into silence.

Think of priests, who have been in the news, who victimized dozens of young boys, all at the same time, all in the same place. Yet, the victims rarely knew about each other. And if they did, they didn't talk. Why?

Because of shame. It makes people hide. AND EVERY VICTIM THINKS IT IS HIS/HER FAULT.

In fact, it's the major telltale sign, that yes, you were victimized.

In TWI, the victims didn't know about each other. And instead of one priest in a parish molesting young boys, you had dozens of "leaders" molesting young women. Exponential growth.

Think about it. The victims were shamed into silence. So each young woman thought it was only her that this thing happened to.

Add to that, the fact that many of the victims were taught that it was their "obligation" to "bless" the "man of God." So even if they felt victimized, they were made to feel guilty about "not being spiritual enough to handle it."

In the kind of rah rah, "let's all do the Word, we know the truth and nobody else does, we are living the 1st century church in the 20th, and wasn't that just the hottest bible you ever heard?" kind of culture of TWI, you'd have to be one brave person to speak up.

Those that did, were ostracized immediately. Gotta keep that lock box, ya know.

So the majority of women, who had a hint, or who knew fully what was going on, kept their mouths shut.

So who can blame the men for not knowing what was going on?

I hope this all makes sense. I'm trying, but it's difficult subject matter to explain.

Edited March 3, 2006 by ex10

[markomalley]

ex10,

The other thing is, in most cases, there is the element of MOG worship to deal with. I don't care if your talking about a Catholic Priest, a Protestant Pastor, a school teacher, a parent, grandparent, or whatever, you stil have the element of idolatry..."this person is above reproach/above the law/ above suspicion"

When we actually believe our own inherent dignity as human beings, teach our kids to respect their own inherent dignity, and don't place other human beings on an unearned higher pedastal, merely due to their position, our kids will always be subject to some kind of abuse. And we, ourselves, wil be subject to believing the exalted abuser over our own flesh and blood.

[ex10]

Yes, absolutely mark.

TWI was clearly an organization that put certain men on a pedestal. In spite of the "God is no respector of persons" rhetoric, TWI was very much of cult of personalities.

And another factor to consider was that there were certain women, and men too, who just had no morals. And went around doing what they pleased with whoever they pleased.

There were many different things going on at different levels, I think. It's a complicated picture.

[Abigail]

and boundaries, Mark. Dignity and boundaries. Predators are very good at slowly moving back your personal boundaries. It is a "testing" of how far they can go. Once they've seen that they can, in fact, inch your boundaries back, they move in for the kill.

TWI was GREAT at inching boundaries back.

[rascal]

Ex 10 I understand what you are saying about the *shame* factor....

I never was able to bring myself to tell my family of the conduct of the pedophile that lived next door when we were growing up....I was over 40 when I spoke of it here for the first time....I was amazed at how much shame I still carried.....so I understand not telling anyone....not thinking that anyone would believe me....

I understand stuffing it way down deep inside ...pretending like it never happened ....and just not *going there* in my mind.

Now couple all of this with the perpetrator being the man of God...the one you trust to lead you to a closer walk with God....

To be made fun of and to feel like you were some how not *spiritual* enough if you couldn`t *handle* it.

It is not about sex.... it is about ultiomate betrayal ... betrayal of a child like trust that we placed in the ministers who promised to lead us to God and show us how to find ALL of lifes answeres.....It is about being young and naieve....trusting God and his leaders believing their motives to be as pure as our own....

I read one poster who was a victim of child sexual abuse from a very young age and then a victim of vpw`s drugging and assault as a teenager who once said (I hope that it is alright to repost this) that of the two betrayals....the one committed by the minister who won her trust and was claiming to offer her healing ....was by far the most devistating.

This stuff IS devistating and these guys didn`t care. If you acted like you were going to tell...you were accused of posession....and all believers...even family members warned to have no contact.

Not only did you deal with the shame of not being *spiritual* but you had to deal with suspicion and astracizing from everyone you knew and loved.

This stuff is deeply damaging....this is unfathomably evil to me....THESE guys who committed these actions ....have NO remorse or understanding of the damage that they personally inflicted....or da mn em...they WOULDN`T be telling people to just shut UP and move on

They still haven`t come to grips with their evil conduct or they would be down on their knees begging forgiveness...

Edited March 3, 2006 by rascal

[rascal]

Sigh.....folks just need to understand that it is so much more than a boys will be boys thing....or good men that occasionally slipped.....or succumbing to temptation :(

This was pure unadulterated evil embraced and practiced that produced devistating ...life long impact on the victims.

It takes a special type of orneriness to destroy without compunction repeatedly... how much MORE so presenting ones self as a minister....GOD`S representative....there to teach and heal ..... da mn em... they contaminate and turn people away from the very God that COULD bring peace and healing to a troubled soul.

After vp or craig got through with you....how the he ll could anyone EVER trust God again?

[igotout]

One memory hit me real hard – VPW having a pajama party at our campus. He shows us a porn movie [a dog and a woman]. He invites one young lady up to the front to show her a porn pen he has . What do you think of that?!?! How appropriate is that? Imagine your local pastor having a sleepover and doing things like that? Kind of scary – okay make it an uncle or a neighbor – yeccchhh – still creepy. Oh – wait I forgot one more little sordid detail – I neglected to tell you this was the Indiana Campus – the Family Corps! There were teenagers in this pajama party. Oooops – I'm sorry another little detail – the young lady VPW was showing the porn pen to – I think she was 16.

TBone - I bet our "still in" former coordinators were there as well, the Moyxxxhans? Correct me if I am wrong. They should be ashamed and should be man enough to admit it. I bet they were right up front with VPW duuring this whole scene. Let me know. I would be curious.

We were also shown this disgusting porn in Emporia in a casual open floor seating context with the light dimmed very low. It was in a 7th Corps meeting. Most of us were in our early 20's and single. It was very uncomfortable watching it and there was no real point in it. We did not ask to be subjected to this material and yet it was a mandatory meeting were had to attend. I believe Howard was there too up front and of course Craig and Donna.

VPW and others who set up these things could have easily gone to prison and been sued abundantly in my opinion. Especially for the Rome city thing.

Edited March 3, 2006 by igotout

[excathedra]

i think we have to get older to realize some things

for some reason though shame stays with you even when you're old

i don't know how to explain it

part of you has been destroyed and then it comes back and bites you in the .... at times

your brain knows the truth but that kid inside you doesn't know jack

anyway

[Dot Matrix]

Ex

That was very well said

[excathedra]

dottie

[T-Bone]

Igotout, it was Hendxxxks and the time frame was 84/85. It has really gotten weird for me AFTER I started this post. After Rascal mentioned the Suicide thread I started reading through it. Holy $h*t - VPW had shown it a bunch!!!! I'm sorry - you guys must get so tired of newbies coming to Grease Spot thinking they've got some new insight or the scoop on something...Geez - seems like an unlimited supply of sick $h*t in these threads! ....I think I'm having some kinda post-traumatic emotional stuff churning up - - guilt, shame and creepiness over the fact that someone I witnessed to eventually became a victim! Yeah - I was unaware of all this crap about TWI back then - but it's weird - like I was part of a zombie supply chain...weird.

[Nottawayfer]

Tbone,

We were all hoodwinked. That's the truth, and I'm sticking to it.

I was on Staff at HQ for 5 years. One day before the STSwhile I was ushering, I saw LCM walking hand-in-hand with another WC woman (she was married also BTW) in the auditorium who was also ushering. They were upstairs, and it was at least an hour before the STS started. They were the only ones up there at the time. I thought it was odd, but I didn't want to think evil. Now I know better. If it looks like a duck.... I don't care how godly you want to call it, IT IS NOT OK FOR TWO MARRIED PEOPLE (NOT MARRIED TO EACH OTHER) TO WALK AROUND HOLDING HANDS.

During those times, we probably saw many things that made us think "WTF?", but we were too busy believing that we were living in God's household. The household doesn't do bad things to others in the household......yeah right. There was more going on than what I saw. It was a sign to me which I didn't quite understand back then. There will be many times you have "ah ha!" moments as you piece together things that didn't quite add up.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Wayfer Not

[excathedra]

I'm sorry - you guys must get so tired of newbies coming to Grease Spot thinking they've got some new insight or the scoop on something

not at all

[Dot Matrix]

When you finally "get" what happened it is shocking. I am glad you "got it" and shared how it made you feel. Not alot of people are comfortable doing that. I applaude you.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[rascal]

You bet ((((tbone)))) It is damned tough to understand how people that we loved and trusted could be so evil.

I know that I ended up feeling tremendously guilty and ashamed for a long time for promoting/supporting/defending/enabeling this outfit to operate.

As far as new insight or scoop....The reason that most folks keep telling their stories here and sharing their info is so that people will ALWAYS have the opportunity to really know how evil twi/vpw was if they care to.....and when someone *gets* it...has those epiphanies....that is when we know that it was worth while to tell this story for the twentieth time.......for the one seeing it for the first time...it is a blow.......but it also seems to be when we begin to heal....the bewilderment is gone...we know what we are facing.

Tbone I am sorry that the thread I recommended disturbed you.... I hope that you eventually feel that it is better to know anyway :(

You are able to look at things honestly and that takes courage...... you are able to examine the accounts without making excuses for the conduct....or minimalizing what was endured....I join dott in applause.

Edited March 4, 2006 by rascal

[Patriot]

T-Bone, you are SOO right! The evil cannot be swept under the carpet! For those still "in" (I would only use the word "innie" respectfully), doesn't it just make sense that nothing resolves itself (how many times have you heard that in twi)? Can you even begin to imagine the scores and scores of women (and maybe men) who had their lives so smashed? How about all those husbands of the wives who were seduced into sexual acts with LCM? And their children who were affected in all this?

They say that they just want to move on with the things of God, and not look back. Rosalie said, in her "clear the air" meeting with the Corps at a past AC Special, that LCM had to list out all the names of the women he had "messed" with, and those were then followed up on. If I were her (and if she was sincere and godly), it would be pretty clear to me that there were a whole lotta people who's lives were deeply damaged, and that something should be done to address the evil. I understand that she (from her point of view) couldn't say too much due to giving ammo to others for lawsuits. That being said, maybe a blanket apology, something to the effect of "We know that many people were hurt by inappropriate conduct of LCM, (or of leaders connected with TWI). Since we cannot possibly investigate each situation to its completion, we do want to express our sincere sorrow at any hurt anyone has endured. We are sincere, and committed to fixing the bad thinking and conduct, so that nothing like this comes up in the future. Thank you for your love and support as we....." well, you get the idea. Who would not respect them for at least doing that? It would have shown they actually care about the people that follow TWI. Those of you still in (there are not many), at least admit to yourself, you would have appreciated hearing that. But since they didn't, IMO, it is not about taking care of the people....God's own children who He treasures. Just about protecting the ministry.

If it is swept under the carpet, it is still there......and you "move on" with the evil never removed, just covered up.

[rascal]

If it is swept under the carpet, it is still there......and you "move on" with the evil never removed, just covered up.

Wow patriot, brilliant analogy .... You know too that as much as they ignore it and pretend that it isn`t there..wish that it would all go away.....it always is still present......the evil under the carpet....is like a bloating stinking carcas ......everyone knows it is there, can smell the stenche....nobody is fooled by the pretense...

I agree, an apology is all that it would take.... then we could see that twi was honest, that they had integrety, that their care for people out weighed their fear of loss of revenue.....

That would go a long way in demonstrating that the people who facilitated the evil, whom aided in shutting people up ...who are STILL there running the show ...has developed come character and morals.

Untill then it is just the ssdd...

[Bramble]

They say that they just want to move on with the things of God, and not look back. Rosalie said, in her "clear the air" meeting with the Corps at a past AC Special, that LCM had to list out all the names of the women he had "messed" with, and those were then followed up on.

Wow, this is the first I've heard where Rosie admitted openly that it was more than a one time, consensual affair. Doe TWI non corps know about this?

[Tom Strange]

Rosalie said, in her "clear the air" meeting with the Corps at a past AC Special, that LCM had to list out all the names of the women he had "messed" with, and those were then followed up on.

Yeah... I'll bet he did... like he would remember them all... people who meant so little to him... I've got a nice bridge for sale as well...

[skyrider]

Okay – maybe it's just me – or did most women have the "aha moment" sooner than guys when this sex s---t hit the fan? I think women are usually more aware of the tactics of pick-up artists. When this crap came out – their feminine processors played back countless little incidents like the one my wife experienced – and said "yup – I'm not surprised." Like I said I'm a slow learner – but I'm learning!

T-Bone,

It's not just you.......so many of us didn't see these sexual predators among us. After all, we were force-fed the twi doctrine of "renew your mind, follow your leadership implicitly."

One of MY countless little incidents came back to me during those Waydale WTF's up days. Upon lcm's request, my wife was asked to go to the corps chalet and make some soup for a sick lcm. Donna was out of town. Well, my wife goes over there, makes the soup, serves lcm supper, cleans the kitchen.

About an hour and twenty minutes later..........I decided to go over to the corps chalet and see if I can help in any way. By this time, lcm had asked my wife to give him a shoulder/upper back rub to "bless him." Still......(and I may be one of those slooooow learners, too) this did not raise any red flags for me or my wife. But what was VERY DISTURBING TO ME was lcm's intense glare at my arrival and presence.

NOW.......in hindsight, and the benefit of Waydale and GS........I am convinced that LCM was on the hunt to score with my wife. I am forever thankful that I was a thorn in his side that night and, somehow, convict his conscience.

Yeah......young and naive and thinking no evil.......is NO WAY to be around sexual predators and the spiritual corruption that dwells at twi's hq.

I've said this before.........I have NO RESPECT for veepee or craiggers.

Absolutely NONE.

Edited March 9, 2006 by skyrider