I pose a question: If speaking in tongues is ''perfect prayer'' than what would it be if we spoke in tongues and then interpreted it back to ourselves? A ''perfect answer?''
I've tried it, and it seems it was the Holy Spirit speaking comfort back to me.
Any thoughts, friend?
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
I think there is a big difference between tongues of angels and tongues of men.
One is in our mouth and does not produce a reliable language.
The others are within our being, and their language is always perfect and divine (when spoken).
If the tongue burns, there will be smoke.
And if there is smoke, the divine will smell it. Without fail.
Yes, the tongues of angels can manifest in the tongues of men - but in an understandable language.
It just depends on what yer talking about and why.
And I think interpretation is an interpretion of the meaning of the tongues of angels themselves.
What we were taught in PFAL was the tongues of men, although the tongues of angels are stimulated by it. We were not taught this part very well, IMO. Cuz VPW didn't really know about it. Like I said, the Book of Revelation reveals how they work. And that book was above his head.
Likewise with interpretation of tongues.
Most of what we were taught in PFAL about interpretation was an elementary form of prophecying. General value statements.
But with regards to the holy spirit speaking comfort back to you....
That is wonderful!
"goo goo ga ga" cuz were hungry or uncomfortable or bored, and a soothing voice calms us.
We understand the intent of the voice more than the words.
The intent and subject and form of your comfort is the kind of angelic tongue.
Genos of tongues. (genos = after their own kind).
There are only 7 tongues, but with evolution, there is no end to the number of songs written with them, or the kinds of instruments they are played on.
For a babe to voice a need (and we are all still babes), is to express the need via sound, but without words. Crying. Pleading. Shouting for attention. Laughing. Giggling. Fussing.
This is us speaking with the tongue of the angel of the church of Ephesus.
We speak to our needs. Our foundational will to live.
When we lose our will to live, our lamp is snuffed and we die.
Speaking in tongues of angels is expressing the 7 forces of our divine nature, in some form or fashion or combination. Via thought, motion, sound, art, etc....
The process of creative expression is speaking in tongues.
Poetry. Songwriting. Painting. Inventing a bigger and better automobile engine.
Doodling on a notepad while yer talking on the phone = a form of speaking in tongues of an angel.
Playing a guitar in a studio brainstorming jam session is a form of speaking in tongues.
There will be an answer to "the Ephesians." It may not always have a clear meaning at first, but there will be an answer that has a life of its own. And the answer is reflection of the question.
...
An angel IS the medium of expression (like a flame).
The church is the device of expression (like a lamp of oil).
Church is a specific gathering of energy.
And so the book of rev says we have 7 such genos of expressions within our make-up.
Which is also the make-up of Christ.
And we are already Christ, unborn, unrealized.
A riddle in a mirror - reveals the divine apparatus that is us, which was forgotten in Eden (not broken). The revelation of the inward man.
...
But when the tongues are NOT being spoken, each church also produces consequences.
The manifestation of discerning of spirits includes the ability to see on these wavelengths.
To be able to diagnose the harmonies and disharmonies of a situation or person or event, via the character and form of the 7 angels of the 7 churches.
How else can you trigger a miracle or plant a seed for healing if you do not even know what forces the universe exists on?
Ever read some posts and wonder… “I wonder if that is true?”
Well, below is my attempt to “re-create” how I think we can look, listen, hear, feel, - with our spirit – not just our limited human minds.
As I read SirGuess’s posts – I was reminded of a time in Vegas when I watched… very intently - the hands of the dealer.
Not that I can memorize the sequence of a deck of cards if someone rips them in front of my eyes... :)--> but - I can at least know what I heard - and I HEARD every card! ;)-->
What SirGuess said - sounded like there was a bunch of truth in there to me!! I could hear it. :)-->
Truth has a sound. It has a rhythm, a signature… (as engineers like to call it) (actually – it does not have just one – but a whole family of footprints that extend beyond the perception of the logical apparatus we call our brain)!
People ought to be able to recognize the SOUND of truth. Validation need not come from exhaustive explanations – but validation can come from a single sound. A beating heart heard is worth a ton of other evidence that a person is ALIVE. It is considered to be primary evidence. So is the sound of truth. It must have the same rhythm that the spirit has or it is of a different type.
Truth from the spirit has sound.
Truth from the spirit has light - bright enough to spill into the shadows and reclaim darkness.
Truth from the spirit has a feel.
Truth from the spirit has a time – too. Truth that comes to us via the spirit is now.
Let me play with this “time” idea for a moment – (ya’ll can play with the others at your leisure, if you want to.) :)-->
Impressions and realizations ALWAYS come in the NOW. (They may employ a shuffled deck from our past, but the cards (word/picture) sequence will be NEW.)
If you get something New… then you had to get it - Now.
The past can never be New because the past is not Now. (So why are we taught to rely on the “past” things the spirit has said for our SOLE source of truth - Now??? )
To live in the past is to remain those kids SirGuess mentioned who dressed up like Super Heroes and jumped up and down on the bed – if we hold on to the notion of Biblical, Scriptural Primacy – we will never turn our attention to the things of the spirit. And where does that leave us? As kids. Never putting away childish things.
Many sword-fight with the scriptures instead of using them as a window – a place to begin to learn the Sound, Light, Feel and Time of the spirit. Make no mistake about it, the Sword of the Spirit is NOT a compilation of scriptures… the sword of the spirit is the truth the spirit puts in your hand, now.)
The “now” is like a great ocean current and if you “find” yourself “there”, you will find yourself living with (going in the same direction) as the spirit. There is much less struggle in the now.
The “fruit of the spirit” and the “manifestation of the spirit” are always placed in this great current of Now.
There was a time in my life when I would have chosen to sword-fight with SirGuess on certain “points”. Not now. Now, I just look and listen and see if what he is saying sings in the key of “NOW”. To me, his posts sound, look, and feel - familiar.
Now, I guess I should quit tapping letters with my fingers and get on.
I noticed that PAW has declared that I "Need a Hobby".
He may be right about that. What I just wrote about is my "hobby". I want to help people get through the "house of horrors" - as it is portrayed - that faces anyone who would EVER dare to break free of the doctrinal stronghold that is around their neck - hung there like a great millstone - people feel obligated to hold onto certian scriptural requirements.
That is not a hobby for me, as much as it is a passion.
Maybe PAW is right... I need a hobby... I already have a passion. :D-->
Roy, I don't know about my ability to help you better understand what you have added. :(--> I sort of stink at completing the ideas of others... just ask my wife. ;)-->
Actually, I think all of those share a similar "sound", light, etc. Sort of like an Owl when it goes swooping by - If you have ever had that chance you will know what I mean - it sounds like no other bird in flight.
But I think that what you wrote was just fine, too because - as I read it, I thought about each and the different or distinctive sounds made by each. I was having trouble discerning them from memory - so I wrote what I wrote back to you...
Now that does not mean that just because I had trouble pegging the differences, that there aren't any differences.
We all have to continue to grow... you know? What I don't see today, I may see in split moment, tomorrow. Tomorrow - who knows, the sound of the fruit of the spirit may be perceived to be very different than I understand it, today.
But I am content with what I wrote... just don't hang on to it too long! Use it to get you to another place.
If I simply read between the words that you said, I would have to think that getting free of some docrtinal fetters rings a bell with you, personally.
You know, if you were to talk about that, that would be a kind of "speaking in a different tongue" ... and it would probably help someone else passing by. :)-->
When you start to talk on a different level, so as to speak, you are speaking a different tongue - I believe this to be part of what SirGuess was saying.
How did you learn to understand the Revelation of Jesus Christ? I am SO lost in that book. I understand that verse about having lost our first love (thank God I'm not there anymore...cried like a baby right there in church when I went to my first church service after leaving a splinter group and that verse was read).
Can you recommend a book that I can read to help me navigate in that unfamiliar territory?
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Much thanks to all, for taking part and adding to.
Especially you, Too Gray, my friend.
We’re not merely sharpening iron here, are we?
But weaving wisps of smoke in the breeze.
...which only seems to go away.
:)-->
:)-->
:)-->
Hi, WB!
A grown-up crying like a baby is often a sign of good things to come, IMO.
Talk about the joy of getting salt in your smiling teeth!
I am glad for you. Sounds like it was a real crossroads coming outta our little Egypt.
We could all use a few more of those, I think.
:)-->
The Book of Revelation is quite the riddle-maze of all of Bibledom, is it not?
Its no wonder guys like Martin Luther thought it didn’t belong in the canon.
And guys like VP were afraid of getting lost in it.
And so I thank you for such a vote of confidence in my understanding of that book.
And I hope this does not offend or trouble you, but it would really help me answer you if I understood what it is you think that I understand about it.
Privately or publickly...whichever you prefer.
…or not. :)-->
..........
Believe it or not, much of what I have written here is more literal than it seems.
A merely figurative reception is a misunderstanding of my position.
I believe certain forms of words are alive and powerful, so I try to be careful with them. I have come to believe that there are divine and ancient mysteries too potent to responsibly just out-and-out reveal. So I’d rather address a specific point of interest or understanding, rather than wander all over the beach, hoping to make sense, causing more confusion and/or anger than anything else. And I just don’t have the will to argue in a court of lawyers right now.
I have really only hinted at a few things so far. And though the contributions have been wonderful and enlightening, they haven’t been specific enough for me to go anywhere else with this thread. Probably my fault. But I am a fool who needs to be led. :)-->
.......
Do I have a book suggestion?
Not really.
Most Christian authors I’ve read on the subject are still staring up at the sky, waiting for Christ to return that way. And ironically, these usual standard big-4 “cloud-watching” Christian “end-times” views remind me more of the minds of each of the 4 beasts in the throneroom rather than that of the 7-eyed lamb. And so its not wonder they can’t even break the seals and move on to solving the rest of the mystery. Truly stuck in outer darkness, IMO.
And most non-Christian authors will not go near a book that has suffered such a “sacrifice of fools,” though the wisdoms of many of the world’s “unclean” scriptures bears the witness of the spirit of the Revelation itself--a testimony of the truly universal nature of God’s holy Christ, IMO. ;)--> But this, too, is a thought too “leprous” for most.
....
How did I learn?
I hate to say this with PFAL-Mike being so vocal around here about special “spiritual” knowledge,
but I have come to make a few connections via a broad spectrum of Christine disciplines. And there are specific books involved.
But a big difference is, is that I believe that what I write is simply MY bread to break, and the bread I myself eat, but not THE bread of life that everyone must eat.
And I don’t wanna make bread from stone, either.
I just wanna finish my song and move on.
I just wanna tell my tale at the crossroads before we part company again.
Wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove...
;)-->
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 11, 2004 at 22:04.]
After reading SirG and his response - I would like to amplify something he sort of mentioned:
quote: And most non-Christian authors will not go near a book that has suffered such a “sacrifice of fools,” though the wisdoms of many of the world’s “unclean” scriptures bears the witness of the spirit of the Revelation itself--a testimony of the truly universal nature of God’s holy Christ, IMO.
How did the ideas about Christ get into our heads?
Ever watch kids play with Lego blocks? Some just want to put something together so they can start playing with it - others invest more time to build a closer representation or likeness to something they have seen. Kids use a different approach because the beginning pictures in their minds are different. But often their works are of a similar type. Universal in nature.
Some people approach the Book of Revelation for understanding because they want to know “the future” – and past history is littered with their myriads of interpretations. But much of the so called “rapture” or future interpretations have not been with us very long – I think it was Darby that is credited with bringing it to this country in the 1800s. Although he, like most, were/are convinced that they “have seen the truth” the fact is, it is basically someone teaching an interpretation rather than people seeing the same thing on their own and agreeing. Most of the common interpretations for the book have arisen due to instruction and suggestion rather than divine impressions chased down and pulled together. This is somewhat understandable.
You can get a similar result by asking 5 children to each build a Lego train. All will build you a train out of the same blocks, but each one will build something that reflects their own idea –no two will be just alike. But you can’t escape the impact of the beginning impression – that they build “a train”.
Even a cursory reading of Revelations suggests that the imagery is highly representational. Many of us ex-way folks sort of “skipped” anything that was highly representational because we could not define it with “a mathematical exactness and scientific precision”. (I’m also quite sure, we did no great service to the “easy” verses that we handled that way, either).
SirGuess mentioned that other taboo or “unclean” scriptures bear witness to the spirit of Revelation. Much of the scripture in the Bible is more of a portal to learning rather than a blueprint for building. I think, part of what should be noted before anyone launches out into the deep, is to take inventory of the basic ideas that are ALREADY in our heads. Did someone say build a “train”? If so, don’t be surprised if what you see is what you already think. The original impression in our heads has a source and is most likely incomplete even as a whole thought.
Most original impressions in people’s heads that are in fundamental Christian circles regarding the Book of Revelations came form Darby. At any rate, you can start with what you have, put blocks together, and then tear them apart and start over. Repeating the process is OK. Kids do it naturally. They are such honest learners. The invitation to become as little children certainly has overtones in this context.
Well, I don't GET any of it except the verse about the first love and also I love to read about Jesus and what he looks like with the white hair and flame for eyes and the white horse he's coming back on...that must be an awesome thing to behold.
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
I must tell you darlin'..I have enjoyed reading your posts so much. You have a way with analogies (sp) that makes this simple little mind of mine understand. Thank you, friend.
Peace and love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
Whatever you "got" is what you start with. If you have only one dollar you are not broke. Although you may not have the answers that you are looking for - you have some answers. And those are what you use to move onward.
Believe me... I can relate to that idea! Open your purse, see what you got... and go turn it into something more. You may not have enough to "buy" the answers you seek, today... but you have something to invest - somewhere. Part of what the Great Teacher does (and I don't mean VP), is direct us through the answers that we have. It is the NEW questions that come on the heels of the last answer that often are the next hurdle in our ability to perceive what He wants us to know.
It actually is a BLAST!
I know you asked specifically for some understanding about the Book of Rev. In that regard, I am sure my posts are a total disappointment. All I want to do is point to a path you can take that may have been forbidden to you in the past.
Whoever you choose to listen to - will certainly impact your "results". I think Sir Guess was pointing to the fact that if we choose a more "spirit centered" approach, we will begin to notice other confirmation from - not only the Bible - but other sources as well.
Wanting to understand is a wonderful state of mind. Anyone can see that from your posts! We were horribly conditioned to covet answers in our past.
BTW - If God ever answers your question with a question – don’t be at all put off. Questions raise possibilities. Many times, my head was so far out of phase with “reality” that I needed a dose of questions just to pry my ‘death grip” off of some stuff I had trusted for 20 years. I had a pocket full of scorpions when I left TWI and thought I had the great treasures of life. Go figure?!
But in my other pocket – I had a couple of shiny pennies – and that was enough to start over. :)-->
And Jezusfreaky:
If my little stories ring in your heart - that just means we are on parallel paths at the moment! So how's the view over where you're at? :)-->
It's turned out to be a rather lovely day here in East Tennessee...I can see the snow on Chilhowee Mountain from my back yard. I would love to have you sometime if'n you'd like to cross the mountain. Jes lemme know. :)-->
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
You said: ...in TWI, we were more like kids pretending to be superheroes, jumping on the bed with bath-towels for capes and brooms for swords. Some of us even fell off and bumped our head. But too few of us ever really stepped outside (doctrinally).
Thanks. That was pretty good.
What do I think that you know about the book of Rev? I have no clue what you know. From your post, you sounded like you thought you understood it. I don't know if you do or not. With Rev, there are so many people writing about it, I basically haven't read ANY (except for blurbs here and there by various and sundry writers who seem to all come at it from different angles) for that very reason. They can't all be right and I doubt if they all are completely wrong. For me, I like to at least think that the guide knows where he's going before I hire him to take me on a trip. Yes, the comforter is the best guide, and I suppose I'll just keep waiting until something rings true. I haven't been urged to delve into anyone's material on that subject...and not because I don't want to understand it. One of the reasons I took PFAL was because I wanted to understand Rev. Pretty funny, huh?
This wasn't meant to be confrontational, just answering your questions or comments as honestly as possible.
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
[This message was edited by waterbuffalo on February 18, 2004 at 17:06.]
Too Gray said: I know you asked specifically for some understanding about the Book of Rev. In that regard, I am sure my posts are a total disappointment. All I want to do is point to a path you can take that may have been forbidden to you in the past.
Hi again. Actually, I haven't been too concerned (as in not at all) what anyone thought about what I've read for at least 20 years, now. LOL! But, I think I get your point about being more led by the spirit more instead of by our brain. Yes, I agree. The problem could be that I've never asked the Lord to teach me the book of Rev and maybe I just answered my own question about why the answers haven't come. Hummmmm.
Thanks. Maybe that is a question. Why haven't I asked?
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Just so ya know - I actually practice my own advice So everything I say should be treated as EXPERIMENTAL. I used to go to a church where - before ministering was started - people would say "I give you permission to practice on me." It was said- not like an oath - but like a friend would say to another.
Just today - on my morning walk, I had a couple of answers show up. These were questions I have had for - oh -let me think - some 45+ years!! Been asking God for the answer for a LOOOOOONG time! Never got word one before on that topic. Heaven was always like "brass" on this topic before.
Why today? Wound too tight, before. Always thought I was REALLY close to getting it - and I never did. :o-->
Today it just fell into place. Way beyond how I would have thought.
very cooool. indeed.
This stuff works that we are talking about on this and other threads.
Let me try to present a further interpretation of tongues in bite-sized morsels.
I will be summarizing and skipping straight past some things in the intro.
(but not cuz they I don’t have an understanding of them, but because the intro itself is hugely diverse with meanings, and the words we write are a medium with many limits).
Please, let me know if it helps at all (same with anyone else reading, I suppose).
It may even help the conversation on the other thread in Doctrinal (for those who are into the Bible stuff, at least).
…
The Book of Revelation is The Revelation of Jesus Christ.
And Christ is the divine-given shape of the INWARD human.
Every human being is in the shape of Christ, which is the shape of the creator.
It REVEALS The Christ of God, in a mystery, which is where?
...within.
The book reveals the divine APPARATUS that each of us already are.
Ignorance of our nature is what The Christ restored.
The ability to forgive and be forgiven and atone comes with understanding the forces that make good and evil things happen, within and without.
The awareness and consciousness of this is what The Christ gives us.
Nothing spiritual was broken but knowledge, which is the medium of understanding and awareness and consciousness.
Spirit itself is not restored, but AWAKENED from a dead sleep (like an inert seed is).
The deeper biology of man is THE inward mystery.
This book reveals the specific stages of realizing, understanding, awakening, and developing our divine human potential, via imagery which begins as figurative, but ends up more literal once the limited tongue of man loses its power.
Light = awareness/consciouness.
Darkness = unawareness/unconsciousness.
The book illustrates all the stages of the awakening of our awareness of Christ.
The book itself is an apparatus, designed to assist us in this.
This is why no word should be added or removed,
because the apparatus is complete, and requires all parts to be working to function.
If a part is missing, it will not be complete.
Angels can't very well move up and down a ladder if a rung or two is missing.
…
OK, imagine waking up in darkness.
This John (Doe) begins his journey of consciousness in the dark (not knowing squat).
Which is a state of humility and nakedness.
“Be still and know that I am God.”
The outward man/outward world has temporarily ceased to exist.
And so, its images and sounds cannot interrupt your thoughts.
And in this state, our thoughts can get really loud.
The first thing we see in this state of darkness is a form that emits a light of its own.
Our form is the only source of conciousness we have at first.
It is the form of THE Christ, which is within.
The shape of the son of man.
Spoiler: A funny thing is, we do not realize at first, that we are looking at our true inward selves IN A MIRROR (like a kid who does not have a sense of self yet).
Christ within. As if our flesh was invisible, and we see our self as a being of light.
What better way is there to look at our true inward self (the unrealized soul)?
But a mirror?
The light of the form of Christ manifests within our own humble selves,
and he is the master teacher of human nature.
With flames for eyes, we can even see in the dark and ignite new understanding.
And we see that we have 7 unlit “gatherings” of “golden fuel.”
In our hands, we have the ability to ignite their function.
…
And so the revelation continues to deepen.
John Doe learns the 7 centers of will that each of us have.
Our 7 planes of thinking, and their expressions (angels),
What they each do automatically,
What challenges each of them faces,
What they must each learn and do to be fulfilled,
And what is the nature of the reward for it.
Each church has an unfulfilled state, and a fulfilled state.
Every person's consciouness begins life in Ephesus, which is our will to live.
Our first love is the love of life.
Our will to ask and seek.
Our hunger for understanding.
When a baby is born, it is nothing but hungry and needy.
If we lose our will to live, we leave our first love, and we give up and stop eating.
Our candle of Ephesus is knocked out of its place.
But Ephesus is just where conscious life begins.
The so-called “advanced” epistle of Ephesus is like Paul rooting them on to win this fight.
He is preparing them to begin the journey well.
Relationships are next, in Smyrna. The synagogue.
When boys discover girls for the first time.
And to light the first three lamps and stop, is to sit on the throne of Satan, Pergamos (which is where VPW stopped)
Our minds can even come back down and dwell on the steps of Smyrna, at the feet of Pergamos, as the synagogue of Satan. Like a harem. A mob.
But there is nothing evil about Pergamos if satan is transformed into an angel of light.
And those who dwell in Pergamos want to keep us from moving on to Thyatira.
Or even send us there right away (by killing us).
And so on.
…
To light a lamp is to realize that lamp.
And when a lamp is lit, it sheds light on other things.
Like the throneroom of God which our consciousness can enter.
Through a door which is also WITHIN.
And most likely, a very small door, based on what Jesus The Christ taught.
;)-->
From here, the journey of understanding continues.
Just lighting the 7 lamps was not enough.
(Here, I’ll summarize even worse)
We realize the lamps.
We light the lamps.
We understand how the lamps work.
We use the lamps to follow a path.
We see seals that block further understanding.
(Each seal corresponds to a lamp – flame melts wax).
We become like the 7-eyed lamb to follow him (via sacrifices)
(in order to open the seals of further understanding)
Seals can only be opened once.
You cannot UNknow what you learn.
Just as much as you cannot become UNborn.
So be prepared.
The matrix has you, Neo.
There is no turning back.
;)-->
Once a seal is opened, we move beyond mere understanding.
Part of us has been changed. A new enablement.
The expression energy (angel) of that lamp can cause things to happen.
Biological realities. Psychological realities. Even Zoologically.
And trumpets involve air and sound.
This is where breathwork and singing come into play.
And once they learn “to blow,” each “angel” is able to learn things like balance and control (or not).
Fill the cup of blessing and tip the cup of wrath.
But all we have done at this point is learned what the flute IS and how each note “sounds.”
We have yet to play music like the master taught (via speaking in tongues of angels),
Or teach anyone else how to play music (via interpretation of the tongues of angels).
Of course, anyone with creative will can pick up a musical instrument and learn to make it sound good. Even really good, at times. And so wonderful things can happen without "formal" discerning of spirits.
But nothing beats a well-written book addressing all 7 angels of the churches.
Especially (possibly) the last hand-delivered book of Jesus Christ himself,
And with an epilogue hand-delivered by a “dead” apostle.
Which is why I have said: without a discernment of the 7 spirits of God (via an understanding of the Revelation of Christ), the apostles' epistles lack the details. In them, they only made reference to the meat they were teaching via A MYSTERY. Sure, wonderful practical overview and summation and specific needs addressed. Accessories. Fillers. Recruitment. Basics. Even invitations to enter Paul’s academy. Milk vs meat.
But alone, the epistles have never really seemed to do anything but make common Christianity seem desperate and hypocritical, IMO.
:)-->
RE: “end times events…”
Like the book of Ezekial expresses, spiritual realities exist in a microcosm and macrocosm. Wheels within wheels. The entire human race is developing as one. Just as we develop on our own.
One, we can do something about. The other, we can usually only sit back and watch.
And when a new wind blows, all blades of grass bend the same direction.
:)-->
Again, I have just summarized and glossed over a few things here.
To stimulate questions.
To stir things up a bit for us ex-way.
Maybe even to cause a little trouble. :D-->
If someone thinks I should not have posted some or all of this stuff, please PT me if you like.
I'm open. :)-->
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on February 19, 2004 at 0:22.]
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
24
9
27
16
Popular Days
Feb 18
10
Feb 26
10
Mar 3
10
Mar 4
7
Top Posters In This Topic
sirguessalot 24 posts
jezusfreaky 9 posts
Too Gray Now 27 posts
year2027 16 posts
Popular Days
Feb 18 2004
10 posts
Feb 26 2004
10 posts
Mar 3 2004
10 posts
Mar 4 2004
7 posts
year2027
Hi Todd
Yes I did like that alot and its alot to think about
If tongues is like colors of light than the interpretation is the view one see’s
Just thinking out loud
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jezusfreaky
Dearest Todd...
Thanks for the food for thought!
;)-->
I pose a question: If speaking in tongues is ''perfect prayer'' than what would it be if we spoke in tongues and then interpreted it back to ourselves? A ''perfect answer?''
I've tried it, and it seems it was the Holy Spirit speaking comfort back to me.
Any thoughts, friend?
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Freaky,
I think there is a big difference between tongues of angels and tongues of men.
One is in our mouth and does not produce a reliable language.
The others are within our being, and their language is always perfect and divine (when spoken).
If the tongue burns, there will be smoke.
And if there is smoke, the divine will smell it. Without fail.
Yes, the tongues of angels can manifest in the tongues of men - but in an understandable language.
It just depends on what yer talking about and why.
And I think interpretation is an interpretion of the meaning of the tongues of angels themselves.
What we were taught in PFAL was the tongues of men, although the tongues of angels are stimulated by it. We were not taught this part very well, IMO. Cuz VPW didn't really know about it. Like I said, the Book of Revelation reveals how they work. And that book was above his head.
Likewise with interpretation of tongues.
Most of what we were taught in PFAL about interpretation was an elementary form of prophecying. General value statements.
But with regards to the holy spirit speaking comfort back to you....
That is wonderful!
"goo goo ga ga" cuz were hungry or uncomfortable or bored, and a soothing voice calms us.
We understand the intent of the voice more than the words.
The intent and subject and form of your comfort is the kind of angelic tongue.
Genos of tongues. (genos = after their own kind).
There are only 7 tongues, but with evolution, there is no end to the number of songs written with them, or the kinds of instruments they are played on.
I hope I was clear.
Roy, I like it when you think out loud.
Yer a lot of fun.
Edited by GuestLink to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
A few more thoughts...
For a babe to voice a need (and we are all still babes), is to express the need via sound, but without words. Crying. Pleading. Shouting for attention. Laughing. Giggling. Fussing.
This is us speaking with the tongue of the angel of the church of Ephesus.
We speak to our needs. Our foundational will to live.
When we lose our will to live, our lamp is snuffed and we die.
Speaking in tongues of angels is expressing the 7 forces of our divine nature, in some form or fashion or combination. Via thought, motion, sound, art, etc....
The process of creative expression is speaking in tongues.
Poetry. Songwriting. Painting. Inventing a bigger and better automobile engine.
Doodling on a notepad while yer talking on the phone = a form of speaking in tongues of an angel.
Playing a guitar in a studio brainstorming jam session is a form of speaking in tongues.
There will be an answer to "the Ephesians." It may not always have a clear meaning at first, but there will be an answer that has a life of its own. And the answer is reflection of the question.
...
An angel IS the medium of expression (like a flame).
The church is the device of expression (like a lamp of oil).
Church is a specific gathering of energy.
And so the book of rev says we have 7 such genos of expressions within our make-up.
Which is also the make-up of Christ.
And we are already Christ, unborn, unrealized.
A riddle in a mirror - reveals the divine apparatus that is us, which was forgotten in Eden (not broken). The revelation of the inward man.
...
But when the tongues are NOT being spoken, each church also produces consequences.
The manifestation of discerning of spirits includes the ability to see on these wavelengths.
To be able to diagnose the harmonies and disharmonies of a situation or person or event, via the character and form of the 7 angels of the 7 churches.
How else can you trigger a miracle or plant a seed for healing if you do not even know what forces the universe exists on?
Edited by GuestLink to comment
Share on other sites
Too Gray Now
Ever read some posts and wonder… “I wonder if that is true?”
Well, below is my attempt to “re-create” how I think we can look, listen, hear, feel, - with our spirit – not just our limited human minds.
As I read SirGuess’s posts – I was reminded of a time in Vegas when I watched… very intently - the hands of the dealer.
Not that I can memorize the sequence of a deck of cards if someone rips them in front of my eyes...
:)--> but - I can at least know what I heard - and I HEARD every card! 
;)-->
What SirGuess said - sounded like there was a bunch of truth in there to me!! I could hear it.
:)-->
Truth has a sound. It has a rhythm, a signature… (as engineers like to call it) (actually – it does not have just one – but a whole family of footprints that extend beyond the perception of the logical apparatus we call our brain)!
People ought to be able to recognize the SOUND of truth. Validation need not come from exhaustive explanations – but validation can come from a single sound. A beating heart heard is worth a ton of other evidence that a person is ALIVE. It is considered to be primary evidence. So is the sound of truth. It must have the same rhythm that the spirit has or it is of a different type.
Truth from the spirit has sound.
Truth from the spirit has light - bright enough to spill into the shadows and reclaim darkness.
Truth from the spirit has a feel.
Truth from the spirit has a time – too. Truth that comes to us via the spirit is now.
Let me play with this “time” idea for a moment – (ya’ll can play with the others at your leisure, if you want to.)
:)-->
Impressions and realizations ALWAYS come in the NOW. (They may employ a shuffled deck from our past, but the cards (word/picture) sequence will be NEW.)
If you get something New… then you had to get it - Now.
The past can never be New because the past is not Now. (So why are we taught to rely on the “past” things the spirit has said for our SOLE source of truth - Now??? )
To live in the past is to remain those kids SirGuess mentioned who dressed up like Super Heroes and jumped up and down on the bed – if we hold on to the notion of Biblical, Scriptural Primacy – we will never turn our attention to the things of the spirit. And where does that leave us? As kids. Never putting away childish things.
Many sword-fight with the scriptures instead of using them as a window – a place to begin to learn the Sound, Light, Feel and Time of the spirit. Make no mistake about it, the Sword of the Spirit is NOT a compilation of scriptures… the sword of the spirit is the truth the spirit puts in your hand, now.)
The “now” is like a great ocean current and if you “find” yourself “there”, you will find yourself living with (going in the same direction) as the spirit. There is much less struggle in the now.
The “fruit of the spirit” and the “manifestation of the spirit” are always placed in this great current of Now.
There was a time in my life when I would have chosen to sword-fight with SirGuess on certain “points”. Not now. Now, I just look and listen and see if what he is saying sings in the key of “NOW”. To me, his posts sound, look, and feel - familiar.
Now, I guess I should quit tapping letters with my fingers and get on.
I’ll see ya’all - on the other side of Now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Too Gray Now
Oh, By the way...
I noticed that PAW has declared that I "Need a Hobby".
He may be right about that. What I just wrote about is my "hobby". I want to help people get through the "house of horrors" - as it is portrayed - that faces anyone who would EVER dare to break free of the doctrinal stronghold that is around their neck - hung there like a great millstone - people feel obligated to hold onto certian scriptural requirements.
That is not a hobby for me, as much as it is a passion.
Maybe PAW is right... I need a hobby... I already have a passion.
:D-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
Hi Too Gray Now
I have again enjoy reading you adding to a post with love and truth in your heart
Yes there are sounds of truth
Each fruit as a sound, view, tough, smell, and feel and it by grace that we hear them
I sure love to have God teach me outside the bible since words could not handle all that Jesus Christ did than the bible does not hold all truths
But all truths must have the right sound as you have said before
Thanks for teaching us again and I hope you can help me greater understand what I added
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Square Peg
Too Gray -
You do help break that doctrinal stranglehold, brother, you do help.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Too Gray Now
Roy, I don't know about my ability to help you better understand what you have added.
:(--> I sort of stink at completing the ideas of others... just ask my wife. 
;)-->
Actually, I think all of those share a similar "sound", light, etc. Sort of like an Owl when it goes swooping by - If you have ever had that chance you will know what I mean - it sounds like no other bird in flight.
But I think that what you wrote was just fine, too because - as I read it, I thought about each and the different or distinctive sounds made by each. I was having trouble discerning them from memory - so I wrote what I wrote back to you...
Now that does not mean that just because I had trouble pegging the differences, that there aren't any differences.
We all have to continue to grow... you know? What I don't see today, I may see in split moment, tomorrow. Tomorrow - who knows, the sound of the fruit of the spirit may be perceived to be very different than I understand it, today.
But I am content with what I wrote... just don't hang on to it too long! Use it to get you to another place.
Peace
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Too Gray Now
Square Peg,
You are very kind, indeed!
If I simply read between the words that you said, I would have to think that getting free of some docrtinal fetters rings a bell with you, personally.
You know, if you were to talk about that, that would be a kind of "speaking in a different tongue" ... and it would probably help someone else passing by.
:)-->
When you start to talk on a different level, so as to speak, you are speaking a different tongue - I believe this to be part of what SirGuess was saying.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
Hi Too Gray Now
Yes you can not complete what is in my mind but your walk of love is teaching me many things
But I was wrong the way I quoted it I should of said
"May God teach us both each day as we walk on this earth"
But let me say the love of God in your words have taught me alot all ready and I look forward to reading more things that God has taught you
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Sir Guess,
How did you learn to understand the Revelation of Jesus Christ? I am SO lost in that book. I understand that verse about having lost our first love (thank God I'm not there anymore...cried like a baby right there in church when I went to my first church service after leaving a splinter group and that verse was read).
Can you recommend a book that I can read to help me navigate in that unfamiliar territory?
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Much thanks to all, for taking part and adding to.
Especially you, Too Gray, my friend.
We’re not merely sharpening iron here, are we?
But weaving wisps of smoke in the breeze.
...which only seems to go away.
Hi, WB!
A grown-up crying like a baby is often a sign of good things to come, IMO.
Talk about the joy of getting salt in your smiling teeth!
I am glad for you. Sounds like it was a real crossroads coming outta our little Egypt.
We could all use a few more of those, I think.
The Book of Revelation is quite the riddle-maze of all of Bibledom, is it not?
Its no wonder guys like Martin Luther thought it didn’t belong in the canon.
And guys like VP were afraid of getting lost in it.
And so I thank you for such a vote of confidence in my understanding of that book.
And I hope this does not offend or trouble you, but it would really help me answer you if I understood what it is you think that I understand about it.
Privately or publickly...whichever you prefer.
…or not.
:)-->
..........
Believe it or not, much of what I have written here is more literal than it seems.
A merely figurative reception is a misunderstanding of my position.
I believe certain forms of words are alive and powerful, so I try to be careful with them. I have come to believe that there are divine and ancient mysteries too potent to responsibly just out-and-out reveal. So I’d rather address a specific point of interest or understanding, rather than wander all over the beach, hoping to make sense, causing more confusion and/or anger than anything else. And I just don’t have the will to argue in a court of lawyers right now.
I have really only hinted at a few things so far. And though the contributions have been wonderful and enlightening, they haven’t been specific enough for me to go anywhere else with this thread. Probably my fault. But I am a fool who needs to be led.
:)-->
.......
Do I have a book suggestion?
Not really.
Most Christian authors I’ve read on the subject are still staring up at the sky, waiting for Christ to return that way. And ironically, these usual standard big-4 “cloud-watching” Christian “end-times” views remind me more of the minds of each of the 4 beasts in the throneroom rather than that of the 7-eyed lamb. And so its not wonder they can’t even break the seals and move on to solving the rest of the mystery. Truly stuck in outer darkness, IMO.
And most non-Christian authors will not go near a book that has suffered such a “sacrifice of fools,” though the wisdoms of many of the world’s “unclean” scriptures bears the witness of the spirit of the Revelation itself--a testimony of the truly universal nature of God’s holy Christ, IMO.
;)--> But this, too, is a thought too “leprous” for most.
....
How did I learn?
I hate to say this with PFAL-Mike being so vocal around here about special “spiritual” knowledge,
but I have come to make a few connections via a broad spectrum of Christine disciplines. And there are specific books involved.
But a big difference is, is that I believe that what I write is simply MY bread to break, and the bread I myself eat, but not THE bread of life that everyone must eat.
And I don’t wanna make bread from stone, either.
I just wanna finish my song and move on.
I just wanna tell my tale at the crossroads before we part company again.
Wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove...
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 11, 2004 at 22:04.]
Edited by GuestLink to comment
Share on other sites
Too Gray Now
WaterB -
After reading SirG and his response - I would like to amplify something he sort of mentioned:
How did the ideas about Christ get into our heads?
Ever watch kids play with Lego blocks? Some just want to put something together so they can start playing with it - others invest more time to build a closer representation or likeness to something they have seen. Kids use a different approach because the beginning pictures in their minds are different. But often their works are of a similar type. Universal in nature.
Some people approach the Book of Revelation for understanding because they want to know “the future” – and past history is littered with their myriads of interpretations. But much of the so called “rapture” or future interpretations have not been with us very long – I think it was Darby that is credited with bringing it to this country in the 1800s. Although he, like most, were/are convinced that they “have seen the truth” the fact is, it is basically someone teaching an interpretation rather than people seeing the same thing on their own and agreeing. Most of the common interpretations for the book have arisen due to instruction and suggestion rather than divine impressions chased down and pulled together. This is somewhat understandable.
You can get a similar result by asking 5 children to each build a Lego train. All will build you a train out of the same blocks, but each one will build something that reflects their own idea –no two will be just alike. But you can’t escape the impact of the beginning impression – that they build “a train”.
Even a cursory reading of Revelations suggests that the imagery is highly representational. Many of us ex-way folks sort of “skipped” anything that was highly representational because we could not define it with “a mathematical exactness and scientific precision”. (I’m also quite sure, we did no great service to the “easy” verses that we handled that way, either).
SirGuess mentioned that other taboo or “unclean” scriptures bear witness to the spirit of Revelation. Much of the scripture in the Bible is more of a portal to learning rather than a blueprint for building. I think, part of what should be noted before anyone launches out into the deep, is to take inventory of the basic ideas that are ALREADY in our heads. Did someone say build a “train”? If so, don’t be surprised if what you see is what you already think. The original impression in our heads has a source and is most likely incomplete even as a whole thought.
Most original impressions in people’s heads that are in fundamental Christian circles regarding the Book of Revelations came form Darby. At any rate, you can start with what you have, put blocks together, and then tear them apart and start over. Repeating the process is OK. Kids do it naturally. They are such honest learners. The invitation to become as little children certainly has overtones in this context.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Too Gray,
Well, I don't GET any of it except the verse about the first love and also I love to read about Jesus and what he looks like with the white hair and flame for eyes and the white horse he's coming back on...that must be an awesome thing to behold.
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jezusfreaky
Too Gray...
I must tell you darlin'..I have enjoyed reading your posts so much. You have a way with analogies (sp) that makes this simple little mind of mine understand. Thank you, friend.
Peace and love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Too Gray Now
WaterB:
Whatever you "got" is what you start with. If you have only one dollar you are not broke. Although you may not have the answers that you are looking for - you have some answers. And those are what you use to move onward.
Believe me... I can relate to that idea! Open your purse, see what you got... and go turn it into something more. You may not have enough to "buy" the answers you seek, today... but you have something to invest - somewhere. Part of what the Great Teacher does (and I don't mean VP), is direct us through the answers that we have. It is the NEW questions that come on the heels of the last answer that often are the next hurdle in our ability to perceive what He wants us to know.
It actually is a BLAST!
I know you asked specifically for some understanding about the Book of Rev. In that regard, I am sure my posts are a total disappointment. All I want to do is point to a path you can take that may have been forbidden to you in the past.
Whoever you choose to listen to - will certainly impact your "results". I think Sir Guess was pointing to the fact that if we choose a more "spirit centered" approach, we will begin to notice other confirmation from - not only the Bible - but other sources as well.
Wanting to understand is a wonderful state of mind. Anyone can see that from your posts! We were horribly conditioned to covet answers in our past.
BTW - If God ever answers your question with a question – don’t be at all put off. Questions raise possibilities. Many times, my head was so far out of phase with “reality” that I needed a dose of questions just to pry my ‘death grip” off of some stuff I had trusted for 20 years. I had a pocket full of scorpions when I left TWI and thought I had the great treasures of life. Go figure?!
But in my other pocket – I had a couple of shiny pennies – and that was enough to start over.
:)-->
And Jezusfreaky:
If my little stories ring in your heart - that just means we are on parallel paths at the moment! So how's the view over where you're at?
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i love this thread
it makes me feel special
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jezusfreaky
Too Gray...
It's turned out to be a rather lovely day here in East Tennessee...I can see the snow on Chilhowee Mountain from my back yard. I would love to have you sometime if'n you'd like to cross the mountain. Jes lemme know.
:)-->
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Todd,
You said: ...in TWI, we were more like kids pretending to be superheroes, jumping on the bed with bath-towels for capes and brooms for swords. Some of us even fell off and bumped our head. But too few of us ever really stepped outside (doctrinally).
Thanks. That was pretty good.
What do I think that you know about the book of Rev? I have no clue what you know. From your post, you sounded like you thought you understood it. I don't know if you do or not. With Rev, there are so many people writing about it, I basically haven't read ANY (except for blurbs here and there by various and sundry writers who seem to all come at it from different angles) for that very reason. They can't all be right and I doubt if they all are completely wrong. For me, I like to at least think that the guide knows where he's going before I hire him to take me on a trip. Yes, the comforter is the best guide, and I suppose I'll just keep waiting until something rings true. I haven't been urged to delve into anyone's material on that subject...and not because I don't want to understand it. One of the reasons I took PFAL was because I wanted to understand Rev. Pretty funny, huh?
This wasn't meant to be confrontational, just answering your questions or comments as honestly as possible.
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
[This message was edited by waterbuffalo on February 18, 2004 at 17:06.]
Edited by GuestLink to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Too Gray said: I know you asked specifically for some understanding about the Book of Rev. In that regard, I am sure my posts are a total disappointment. All I want to do is point to a path you can take that may have been forbidden to you in the past.
Hi again. Actually, I haven't been too concerned (as in not at all) what anyone thought about what I've read for at least 20 years, now. LOL! But, I think I get your point about being more led by the spirit more instead of by our brain. Yes, I agree. The problem could be that I've never asked the Lord to teach me the book of Rev and maybe I just answered my own question about why the answers haven't come. Hummmmm.
Thanks. Maybe that is a question. Why haven't I asked?
WB
Asked why he began studying Greek at age 94, Oliver Wendell Holmes replied,"Well, my good sir, it's now or never!"
Edited by GuestLink to comment
Share on other sites
Too Gray Now
WB:
I HEAR ya! That last question you just posed -
...looked kinda like a shiny penny to meJust so ya know - I actually practice my own advice
So everything I say should be treated as EXPERIMENTAL. I used to go to a church where - before ministering was started - people would say "I give you permission to practice on me." It was said- not like an oath - but like a friend would say to another.
Just today - on my morning walk, I had a couple of answers show up. These were questions I have had for - oh -let me think - some 45+ years!! Been asking God for the answer for a LOOOOOONG time! Never got word one before on that topic. Heaven was always like "brass" on this topic before.
Why today? Wound too tight, before. Always thought I was REALLY close to getting it - and I never did.
:o-->
Today it just fell into place. Way beyond how I would have thought.
very cooool. indeed.
This stuff works that we are talking about on this and other threads.
Peace and good journey!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Thanks, E.
Then you must be crazy as we.
:D-->
Too Gray,
Congrats on the tremor.
“Pieces falling into place”
…reminds me of an earthquake.
WB,
Not confrontational at all.
Though, I might have come across that way.
We are playing with fire here, right?
(with flame for eyes...he he)
Let me try to present a further interpretation of tongues in bite-sized morsels.
I will be summarizing and skipping straight past some things in the intro.
(but not cuz they I don’t have an understanding of them, but because the intro itself is hugely diverse with meanings, and the words we write are a medium with many limits).
Please, let me know if it helps at all (same with anyone else reading, I suppose).
It may even help the conversation on the other thread in Doctrinal (for those who are into the Bible stuff, at least).
…
The Book of Revelation is The Revelation of Jesus Christ.
And Christ is the divine-given shape of the INWARD human.
Every human being is in the shape of Christ, which is the shape of the creator.
It REVEALS The Christ of God, in a mystery, which is where?
...within.
The book reveals the divine APPARATUS that each of us already are.
Ignorance of our nature is what The Christ restored.
The ability to forgive and be forgiven and atone comes with understanding the forces that make good and evil things happen, within and without.
The awareness and consciousness of this is what The Christ gives us.
Nothing spiritual was broken but knowledge, which is the medium of understanding and awareness and consciousness.
Spirit itself is not restored, but AWAKENED from a dead sleep (like an inert seed is).
The deeper biology of man is THE inward mystery.
This book reveals the specific stages of realizing, understanding, awakening, and developing our divine human potential, via imagery which begins as figurative, but ends up more literal once the limited tongue of man loses its power.
Light = awareness/consciouness.
Darkness = unawareness/unconsciousness.
The book illustrates all the stages of the awakening of our awareness of Christ.
The book itself is an apparatus, designed to assist us in this.
This is why no word should be added or removed,
because the apparatus is complete, and requires all parts to be working to function.
If a part is missing, it will not be complete.
Angels can't very well move up and down a ladder if a rung or two is missing.
…
OK, imagine waking up in darkness.
This John (Doe) begins his journey of consciousness in the dark (not knowing squat).
Which is a state of humility and nakedness.
“Be still and know that I am God.”
The outward man/outward world has temporarily ceased to exist.
And so, its images and sounds cannot interrupt your thoughts.
And in this state, our thoughts can get really loud.
The first thing we see in this state of darkness is a form that emits a light of its own.
Our form is the only source of conciousness we have at first.
It is the form of THE Christ, which is within.
The shape of the son of man.
Spoiler: A funny thing is, we do not realize at first, that we are looking at our true inward selves IN A MIRROR (like a kid who does not have a sense of self yet).
Christ within. As if our flesh was invisible, and we see our self as a being of light.
What better way is there to look at our true inward self (the unrealized soul)?
But a mirror?
The light of the form of Christ manifests within our own humble selves,
and he is the master teacher of human nature.
With flames for eyes, we can even see in the dark and ignite new understanding.
And we see that we have 7 unlit “gatherings” of “golden fuel.”
In our hands, we have the ability to ignite their function.
…
And so the revelation continues to deepen.
John Doe learns the 7 centers of will that each of us have.
Our 7 planes of thinking, and their expressions (angels),
What they each do automatically,
What challenges each of them faces,
What they must each learn and do to be fulfilled,
And what is the nature of the reward for it.
Each church has an unfulfilled state, and a fulfilled state.
Every person's consciouness begins life in Ephesus, which is our will to live.
Our first love is the love of life.
Our will to ask and seek.
Our hunger for understanding.
When a baby is born, it is nothing but hungry and needy.
If we lose our will to live, we leave our first love, and we give up and stop eating.
Our candle of Ephesus is knocked out of its place.
But Ephesus is just where conscious life begins.
The so-called “advanced” epistle of Ephesus is like Paul rooting them on to win this fight.
He is preparing them to begin the journey well.
Relationships are next, in Smyrna. The synagogue.
When boys discover girls for the first time.
And to light the first three lamps and stop, is to sit on the throne of Satan, Pergamos (which is where VPW stopped)
Our minds can even come back down and dwell on the steps of Smyrna, at the feet of Pergamos, as the synagogue of Satan. Like a harem. A mob.
But there is nothing evil about Pergamos if satan is transformed into an angel of light.
And those who dwell in Pergamos want to keep us from moving on to Thyatira.
Or even send us there right away (by killing us).
And so on.
…
To light a lamp is to realize that lamp.
And when a lamp is lit, it sheds light on other things.
Like the throneroom of God which our consciousness can enter.
Through a door which is also WITHIN.
And most likely, a very small door, based on what Jesus The Christ taught.
From here, the journey of understanding continues.
Just lighting the 7 lamps was not enough.
(Here, I’ll summarize even worse)
We realize the lamps.
We light the lamps.
We understand how the lamps work.
We use the lamps to follow a path.
We see seals that block further understanding.
(Each seal corresponds to a lamp – flame melts wax).
We become like the 7-eyed lamb to follow him (via sacrifices)
(in order to open the seals of further understanding)
Seals can only be opened once.
You cannot UNknow what you learn.
Just as much as you cannot become UNborn.
So be prepared.
The matrix has you, Neo.
There is no turning back.
Once a seal is opened, we move beyond mere understanding.
Part of us has been changed. A new enablement.
The expression energy (angel) of that lamp can cause things to happen.
Biological realities. Psychological realities. Even Zoologically.
And trumpets involve air and sound.
This is where breathwork and singing come into play.
And once they learn “to blow,” each “angel” is able to learn things like balance and control (or not).
Fill the cup of blessing and tip the cup of wrath.
And both are necessary at times.
…
7 lamps, 7 tongues of fire, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls…
But all we have done at this point is learned what the flute IS and how each note “sounds.”
We have yet to play music like the master taught (via speaking in tongues of angels),
Or teach anyone else how to play music (via interpretation of the tongues of angels).
Of course, anyone with creative will can pick up a musical instrument and learn to make it sound good. Even really good, at times. And so wonderful things can happen without "formal" discerning of spirits.
But nothing beats a well-written book addressing all 7 angels of the churches.
Especially (possibly) the last hand-delivered book of Jesus Christ himself,
And with an epilogue hand-delivered by a “dead” apostle.
Which is why I have said: without a discernment of the 7 spirits of God (via an understanding of the Revelation of Christ), the apostles' epistles lack the details. In them, they only made reference to the meat they were teaching via A MYSTERY. Sure, wonderful practical overview and summation and specific needs addressed. Accessories. Fillers. Recruitment. Basics. Even invitations to enter Paul’s academy. Milk vs meat.
But alone, the epistles have never really seemed to do anything but make common Christianity seem desperate and hypocritical, IMO.
RE: “end times events…”
Like the book of Ezekial expresses, spiritual realities exist in a microcosm and macrocosm. Wheels within wheels. The entire human race is developing as one. Just as we develop on our own.
One, we can do something about. The other, we can usually only sit back and watch.
And when a new wind blows, all blades of grass bend the same direction.
Again, I have just summarized and glossed over a few things here.
To stimulate questions.
To stir things up a bit for us ex-way.
Maybe even to cause a little trouble.
:D-->
If someone thinks I should not have posted some or all of this stuff, please PT me if you like.
I'm open.
:)-->
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on February 19, 2004 at 0:22.]
Edited by GuestLink to comment
Share on other sites
TheInvisibleDan
Sirguess -
"If someone thinks I should not have posted some or all of this stuff, please PT me if you like. I'm open."
Omigosh, are you kidding?
That was a fascinating post.
Thank you.
Danny
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.