Interesting, Sir G. I will have to think about it to see how things fit into your perspectives.
But I don't really think the world has gone mad...I think it always has been a mass of chaos with outposts of order and peace here and there. For some, this is the best the world has ever been...others, not so much.
I have to think about how to phrase my understanding of what you just said.
Basically, I have found that the bigger picture comes from being familiar and comfortable with the smaller units. I'm thinking of skills here, mostly. The more comfortable you are with a set of sub-set skills - the more fluid you are with the "global skill." Then you can integrate the skill into other skills.
hi Bramble... well, i used "going mad" quite loosely, and wasnt meant as part of the content of my post... i just want to clarify that i dont necessarily equate "going mad" with chaos ... nor 'going sane' with order or peace
...i do look forward to what you may have to write after you've thought about how things might fit into those perspectives
....
Dooj...yeah. and i suspect it also works going the other way, too ... where the more familiar we are with the big picture, the more we can locate and arrange those subsets in relationship to other subsets.
Been a while, my good friend since I have popped in -
I must say - I would like to twist your first post - just a bit - to see if it jars any fingers loose and weakens the death grip you mention.
Let me fiddle with the verb "is" and all the forms of it in your post – One can replace it with the appropriate form of the verb "to become". If we do, the altered meaning points to a way out of our dilemma of feeling that we have encountered THE “correct” world view. Our very use of language unveils the unnoticed bias… we say “My view of such-and-such IS…..” when we could admit to our progressive realization and say “My view right now is BECOMING…”
Our notion of "is-ness" is very Greek or Western. One has to push the button and create a stop-scene moment in order to say “is” with any degree of authority. But life does not stop; for if it does stop, it ceases to be life. For me, “become” is more descriptive of what I live – I can not look in the mirror and forget the continuum I see and feel in my own life or the opinions that are becoming or ever-forming within me.
Who here can only see themselves as others say they perceive them “to be”? Who here would not trifle with anyone’s 3rd party assessment of them? Who here does not bristle any longer when their spouse says “You ALWAYS are ________ !”. We all know we change. We all know we can not be “consistent”. We are not an instance of “is”.
Think of a pretty flower - that turns into a seed - that falls - that gets in the soil - that sprouts - that .... That flower is an instance of a becoming-seed. It becomes. It never only is JUST a flower – except to the 3rd. party observer – who doesn’t really know what they are gazing upon. Certainly, if the flower dies - it may become an "is" with brown pedals that never matures to a seed body - but if its progress remains alive – then it becomes. Anything alive... becomes. Anything dead… is.
We all live in a picture world. We take photos. We put “subjects” into the “frame” and then we wait for “perfect light”. We gather grandma, grandpa, the kids, and all for a Holiday picture and take 5 shots until we get one where EVERYBODY is smiling. Why? Because we like to remember things "as they were" at least so we say.
Bull-butter. We most certainly do NOT WANT to remember kids crying, grandpa drinking and cussing out grandma one more time, etc. We want only happy memories. We do not want ALL of the memories. We like to remember things the way we want to think they are – or the way we would like them “to be”,
Since most people feel powerless to interact in the process of everything they are becoming and can not seem to bend their total existence to their own will, they gladly settle for a fake picture. They hold onto these pictures for years. They frame them. Hang them on their walls. They pass them down the family line. These are the images they savor. They prefer to pretend their lives to be full of moments just like the picture. But is this picture a slice of their collective becoming? Can they truthfully say “Here we all ARE on Christmas day!!” ? I think not.
We do the same sort of thing when we hold onto our world view with a death grip. It is our picture of the world. Our view is filled with isness, it is filled with fiction.
These days, it is not fashionable to have a world view that has any sort of hope in it – better to have a picture of everyone perishing. At least so it seems. Is this worldview what we all are to become? In part, our fascination with “isness” is a pre-occupation with death – or at least – a not-so-true picture of life. Is it any wonder we have despair by the bucket loads?
Possibly we could get over our death grip as you say (good choice of words, in my opinion) of our world points of view one step at time - if we got rid of the photo mentality - and rid ourselves of the "isness" that causes us to assume that we have discovered the very nature of a thing (or someone) - by seeing it in just one of its many, many, many phases.
Cool website, Todd! Your SiteMeter will show that I camped out there for quite a bit. ^_^
I wonder if we're trying to categorize or classify something that really has none - ya know, kind of like, if we were to try to write a process chart for life and how & why folks act, believe and think the way they do, there would be so many variables that it's just impossible to get a global viewpoint on how to even start.
I love the Holon philosophy. Seems as if even our time here on Earth is only part of a whole and, since we're all at different places of learning and understanding - even the time here on Earth has a completely different meaning and purpose for each of us, which is why perceptions and perspectives are so varied.
Aspects of what you mention is impossible for some people to "get" whereas it may be elementary for others.... none good or bad, just different and because we're all at different places on our own path. Yet, we continue to try to understand and explain life - most all of us do, anyway :P - but we're really only capable of seeing it from where we are.
I'm sure Todd will be along soon TGN, but I think 'is' ain't too bad. If it's thought of as something that is a roadblock or stopsign, then yes another term should be employed. Like 'I AM' does not indicate limits to me, though it might to another. I become or i will become or that's quite becoming :) sounds cool too though.
These days I tend to "feel" what surfaces inside of me when I read a thing and comment on that basis. What surfaces is not often what the other person intended - and I do not mean my comments to be a re-statement of nor an expounding upon what the other person meant at the logic level. But, often what surfaces is not wholly disconnected from their meaning, either. Certainly, your comments had me nodding in the affirmative direction. :)
Affirming a thing with our insides - our very lives, if you will - is as close to a full agreement as I can honestly produce.
Cman,
I hear ya - I am with ya - nothing unclean of itself. It is for that very reason that I "attached" the notion of death to isness and notion of "life" to becoming. Only scaffolding, my friend, only scaffolding to try and describe a "felt" reality.
A meeting of the minds upon specific meaning does not dictate inner affirmation. I have found that I can agree in mind, but my mind can be way out of phase with what is inside of me.
Sirguess has a way of using scaffolding - maps - structure... etc. to try and excavate and solicit comments. It is one of his trademarks that I have enjoyed for years - Once one stands upon the scaffolding, I guess one could comment upon thejourney... the width of the plank upon which one stands... there are many ways to respond.
Recently, I have chosen to simply report what I "see" after crawling up the scaffolding.
That is the thing about Sirguess - you can see a LOT of different things if you take his invite to "Come on UP - and Look around!" Heck, I just looked in one direction and ran smack, dab into something else I have been wrestling with, over the last year.
Actualy, I must admit to putting my mind through the equivelent of a game of TWISTER when I considered, deeply, the implications of the Hebrew language not having a verb "to be". For a dyed-in-the-wool techie, like me, that rocks the whole boat.
I don't consider it a derail, TGN. Even if it is, please, continue. I've been thinking a lot since reading your post about "becoming" vs. "is"-ness. I like that and it IS more accurate to how I feel most of the time. I'm rather fond of saying that "this" is my opinion/viewpoint/belief "right now" and it is subject to change at any moment. Ask the same question tomorrow and you most likely will get a different answer from me.
I, too, consider our "feelings" inside to be pretty darn good guides of what's right and wrong or, better, "true" to ourselves and our own personal morality, philosophy, what have you. I believe if I had paid more attention to those things when I was younger it would have saved me quite a bit of grief, but, alas, we're exactly where we should be, no?
I subscribe to the Daily OM and today's seems to be rather fitting to this discussion. I hope y'all don't mind my posting it here:
October 16, 2007
Releasing The Reigns
Changing Others
Our perception of humanity as a whole is, to a large extent, dualistic. We paint people with a broad brush�some are like us, sharing our opinions and our attitudes, while others are different. Our commitment to values we have chosen to embrace is often so strong that we are easily convinced that our way is the right way. We may find ourselves frustrated by those who view the world from an alternate vantage point and make use of unusual strategies when coping with life's challenges. However ardently we believe that these people would be happier and more satisfied following our lead, we should resist the temptation to try to change them. Every human being has been blessed with a unique nature that cannot be altered by outside forces. We are who we are at any one point in our lives for a reason, and no one person can say for certain what another should be like.
The reasons we try to change one another are numerous. Since we have learned over time to flourish in the richness of lives we have built, we may come to believe that we are qualified to speak on behalf of the greater source. The sum total of our knowledge will never compare to what we do not know, however, and our understanding of others� lives will forever be limited. The potential we see in the people who are a part of our lives will never be precisely the same as our own, so we do these individuals a disservice when we make assumptions about their intentions, preferences, and goals. Our power lies in our ability to accept others for all their quirks and differences and to let go of the need to control every element of our existence. We can love people for who they are, embracing their uniqueness, or we can love them as human beings from afar.
Your ability to influence people may grow more sophisticated because others sense that you respect their right to be themselves, but you will likely spend more time gazing inward, into the one person you can change: yourself.
"Your ability to influence people may grow more sophisticated because others sense that you respect their right to be themselves, but you will likely spend more time gazing inward, into the one person you can change: yourself."
Ok. NOW I am gonna de-rail this puppy! :)
I used to travel a lot - much less now. But I still like to enguage people at the airport, on the train, etc. right in the eyes - pure strangers to me. When I do, I practice different active thoughts - my intentions towards them - I intend to accept them. Just to see what happens.
Sure as can be - if I am intending acceptance... and let my face muscles do the natural things that those intentions tug upon - people do respond. Often, with a perceptive softening in their face - or in some cases, a very broad smile. Or they may say, "Do I KNOW you??" It is fascinating to watch.
But, if I just sort of keep to myself and use the "Urban Glazed - I-don't-give-a-shi*" expression which is so common... Nothing happens.
But, I have had to do a lot of inner work to get a place where I could broadcast a coherent message.
If change on the other person's part is not required for acceptance... that gets communicated. If something in me is offended by "them" - it is literally something in me. It is not them. It is my problem. Not their problem at all. Then I use EFT or some other mechanism to deal with it and clear it.
We are marvelous creatures - complex - sensitive... People have the circuitry to get all of this info - so why not broadcast it? But, our "communication" gets full of static when we have not done the work to reconcile our own offenses.
What I am saying here is not some new thing - it has been around for ages.
Only, sometimes, even when I'm trying the urban "don't mess with me" attitude it doesn't work. I've wondered at times if it's because that's not really my nature, even when I really would rather be left alone - like on a long flight when I've got a really good book to read.
I've downloaded the EFT stuff but haven't read all of it or practiced it with any regularity. Do you use it often? Have you noticed a lot of effectiveness using it? Maybe I should take that conversation offline to PM/e-mail?
A large change in my life post TWI that seems to fit with this thread( in a way) is how I deal with what I see as problems with the world we live in. For so long, my emphasis was on changing people by getting them to agree with what I thought and to act like I act(TWI doctrine etc). That proved to be futile in the long run. Once you decide you can and should change people you figure out that others think they can and should change you.
Now I put my energies toward circumstances I can change, not people... I can donate time and food to the food bank, for instance, or help out an elderly co worker wth yard work, or stay home and take care of my own family and home. Many things seem too small to matter, I guess, but they are conscieous on my part and I know of others who are quietly making similar decisions. The stone in the pond affect, perhaps... But then I now see practical matters as being part of the spiritual, not some separate activity that must be done so I can work the Word or whatever.
Hey Belle, could I be included in the EFT discussion? I've been reading it but not practising it.
I've downloaded the EFT stuff but haven't read all of it or practiced it with any regularity. Do you use it often? Have you noticed a lot of effectiveness using it? Maybe I should take that conversation offline to PM/e-mail?
Todd, I hope the busy wave is a fun one. :)
Belle & Bramble;
I am carrying no water for XYZ, here - meaning I am not a therapist or rep... - but I have found EFT to be a very remarkable tool. I use the various techniques regularly and I have noticed everything from nothing to astounding results in my life and in the lives of others.
I have done it myself - meaning I have never been to see an EFT therapist. I ordered the DVDs and read and just started using it. This speaks to me about the user-friendly nature of the tool.
I tell others "Look, just start using it. Your belief is not necessary to make it (EFT protocol) work... so don't spend a lot of time trying to get your logic to buy into it or explain it all before you decide to use it."
Yeah, we should probably take this part of the discussion off line - PM - or email - or phone...
I will PM you guys.
CMAN -
I like that about smashing your faith.
Heck, learnng to enguage with life (without the felt need to first dress up all of one's daily events in tired, old, hand-me-down straight-jackets of doctrinal explanation) sure is a lot more real. I find I need very few beliefs in order to function these days. I just don't need them for this part of my journey. So, I dumped 'em and said Goodbye.
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Bramble
Interesting, Sir G. I will have to think about it to see how things fit into your perspectives.
But I don't really think the world has gone mad...I think it always has been a mass of chaos with outposts of order and peace here and there. For some, this is the best the world has ever been...others, not so much.
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doojable
I have to think about how to phrase my understanding of what you just said.
Basically, I have found that the bigger picture comes from being familiar and comfortable with the smaller units. I'm thinking of skills here, mostly. The more comfortable you are with a set of sub-set skills - the more fluid you are with the "global skill." Then you can integrate the skill into other skills.
I suspect it's similiar in most areas of life.
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cman
I like that 5th person on Ezekiel. Makes more sense. Though couldn't ever quite 'get it'.
6th and more is even more expanding space of time...now. Still quite complex, though expanding it to workable.
'The Son of Man' is used in Ezekiel more then any other book. Of which we all constitute.
Giving more of a w-i-d-e perspective of who we are and what we are and where we are.
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sirguessalot
thanks everyone for the comments
hi Bramble... well, i used "going mad" quite loosely, and wasnt meant as part of the content of my post... i just want to clarify that i dont necessarily equate "going mad" with chaos ... nor 'going sane' with order or peace
...i do look forward to what you may have to write after you've thought about how things might fit into those perspectives
....
Dooj...yeah. and i suspect it also works going the other way, too ... where the more familiar we are with the big picture, the more we can locate and arrange those subsets in relationship to other subsets.
Holons and Holarchies are interesting words
how we can see where every whole is also a part of a greater whole,
and every part is also a whole with many parts.
...
Cman...hmm
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cman
Well..:)
i was goin to respond to what you wrote and it's gone haha
that's cool.......
i understand 5 better, 1-4 is still a work, 6 is somethin else
not a part of the subject yet
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sirguessalot
yeah...even though it was worth writing...i deleted what i wrote cuz i'm not sure it was worth reading
thanks for mentioning it
here it is again...
....
to add...with that 5th perspective, i find that paradoxes and opposing polarities of parts and wholes are no longer confounding,
but actually useful and helpful as the very coordinates and contours for navigating the radical complexity of all this.
and so rather than merely reduce everything down to some overly simple perspective,
we can find a simple way that handles this complexity as it is.
and by "simple way"...i suppose i mean language.
but not some new rigid narrow language-set (such as we experience with TWI and ilk)
...but new ways of speaking about the ways we use language.. even when speaking to ourselves (thinking)
...where this redundancy (language about language) is a reverberating affair that provides a much clearer echo of what is trying to be meant
…or some such things
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year2027
God first
Beloved Todd
God loves you my dear friend
been reading and thinking on the great tread you wrote us to learn from many perspectives
the I as me, me, me
the I as share as a part of the greater what
family
group like church meetings
town
state
country
world
all worlds together
then there many perspectives we can see them from
the inner self and outerself to name a few
is not our body like a city with plants building and rebuilding as needed getting supplies needed plus more
or are we part of a city
this is were I am on thinking because my mind is runing to and fro
write when I am more peaceful just wanted to say hi
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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sirguessalot
thanks Roy...and wishing you peacefulness
as it relates to this thread, here is page on my recently updated website that i designed with our 4 basic perspectives in mind
its not a perfect or complete representation of them, but it may help see how these perspectives fit together
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cman
yeah that one, i like that
and more the sense of my language
different perspectives yield different understandings
and not to leave out one but mixing them
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Belle
Great thread, Todd. I think th
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Too Gray Now
Hey +odd -
Been a while, my good friend since I have popped in -
I must say - I would like to twist your first post - just a bit - to see if it jars any fingers loose and weakens the death grip you mention.
Let me fiddle with the verb "is" and all the forms of it in your post – One can replace it with the appropriate form of the verb "to become". If we do, the altered meaning points to a way out of our dilemma of feeling that we have encountered THE “correct” world view. Our very use of language unveils the unnoticed bias… we say “My view of such-and-such IS…..” when we could admit to our progressive realization and say “My view right now is BECOMING…”
Our notion of "is-ness" is very Greek or Western. One has to push the button and create a stop-scene moment in order to say “is” with any degree of authority. But life does not stop; for if it does stop, it ceases to be life. For me, “become” is more descriptive of what I live – I can not look in the mirror and forget the continuum I see and feel in my own life or the opinions that are becoming or ever-forming within me.
Who here can only see themselves as others say they perceive them “to be”? Who here would not trifle with anyone’s 3rd party assessment of them? Who here does not bristle any longer when their spouse says “You ALWAYS are ________ !”. We all know we change. We all know we can not be “consistent”. We are not an instance of “is”.
Think of a pretty flower - that turns into a seed - that falls - that gets in the soil - that sprouts - that .... That flower is an instance of a becoming-seed. It becomes. It never only is JUST a flower – except to the 3rd. party observer – who doesn’t really know what they are gazing upon. Certainly, if the flower dies - it may become an "is" with brown pedals that never matures to a seed body - but if its progress remains alive – then it becomes. Anything alive... becomes. Anything dead… is.
We all live in a picture world. We take photos. We put “subjects” into the “frame” and then we wait for “perfect light”. We gather grandma, grandpa, the kids, and all for a Holiday picture and take 5 shots until we get one where EVERYBODY is smiling. Why? Because we like to remember things "as they were" at least so we say.
Bull-butter. We most certainly do NOT WANT to remember kids crying, grandpa drinking and cussing out grandma one more time, etc. We want only happy memories. We do not want ALL of the memories. We like to remember things the way we want to think they are – or the way we would like them “to be”,
Since most people feel powerless to interact in the process of everything they are becoming and can not seem to bend their total existence to their own will, they gladly settle for a fake picture. They hold onto these pictures for years. They frame them. Hang them on their walls. They pass them down the family line. These are the images they savor. They prefer to pretend their lives to be full of moments just like the picture. But is this picture a slice of their collective becoming? Can they truthfully say “Here we all ARE on Christmas day!!” ? I think not.
We do the same sort of thing when we hold onto our world view with a death grip. It is our picture of the world. Our view is filled with isness, it is filled with fiction.
These days, it is not fashionable to have a world view that has any sort of hope in it – better to have a picture of everyone perishing. At least so it seems. Is this worldview what we all are to become? In part, our fascination with “isness” is a pre-occupation with death – or at least – a not-so-true picture of life. Is it any wonder we have despair by the bucket loads?
Possibly we could get over our death grip as you say (good choice of words, in my opinion) of our world points of view one step at time - if we got rid of the photo mentality - and rid ourselves of the "isness" that causes us to assume that we have discovered the very nature of a thing (or someone) - by seeing it in just one of its many, many, many phases.
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Belle
Oops! I dunno what happened to my response. :huh:
Cool website, Todd! Your SiteMeter will show that I camped out there for quite a bit. ^_^
I wonder if we're trying to categorize or classify something that really has none - ya know, kind of like, if we were to try to write a process chart for life and how & why folks act, believe and think the way they do, there would be so many variables that it's just impossible to get a global viewpoint on how to even start.
I love the Holon philosophy. Seems as if even our time here on Earth is only part of a whole and, since we're all at different places of learning and understanding - even the time here on Earth has a completely different meaning and purpose for each of us, which is why perceptions and perspectives are so varied.
Aspects of what you mention is impossible for some people to "get" whereas it may be elementary for others.... none good or bad, just different and because we're all at different places on our own path. Yet, we continue to try to understand and explain life - most all of us do, anyway :P - but we're really only capable of seeing it from where we are.
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cman
I'm sure Todd will be along soon TGN, but I think 'is' ain't too bad. If it's thought of as something that is a roadblock or stopsign, then yes another term should be employed. Like 'I AM' does not indicate limits to me, though it might to another. I become or i will become or that's quite becoming :) sounds cool too though.
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Belle
Ha! That's kinda along the lines of what I was trying to say, TGN.
Dunno how I missed your post.
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Too Gray Now
Bell,
Yes. Yes. Yes! (I like saying that word
)
These days I tend to "feel" what surfaces inside of me when I read a thing and comment on that basis. What surfaces is not often what the other person intended - and I do not mean my comments to be a re-statement of nor an expounding upon what the other person meant at the logic level. But, often what surfaces is not wholly disconnected from their meaning, either. Certainly, your comments had me nodding in the affirmative direction. :)
Affirming a thing with our insides - our very lives, if you will - is as close to a full agreement as I can honestly produce.
Cman,
I hear ya - I am with ya - nothing unclean of itself.
It is for that very reason that I "attached" the notion of death to isness and notion of "life" to becoming. Only scaffolding, my friend, only scaffolding to try and describe a "felt" reality.
A meeting of the minds upon specific meaning does not dictate inner affirmation. I have found that I can agree in mind, but my mind can be way out of phase with what is inside of me.
Sirguess has a way of using scaffolding - maps - structure... etc. to try and excavate and solicit comments. It is one of his trademarks that I have enjoyed for years - Once one stands upon the scaffolding, I guess one could comment upon thejourney... the width of the plank upon which one stands... there are many ways to respond.
Recently, I have chosen to simply report what I "see" after crawling up the scaffolding.
That is the thing about Sirguess - you can see a LOT of different things if you take his invite to "Come on UP - and Look around!" Heck, I just looked in one direction and ran smack, dab into something else I have been wrestling with, over the last year.
Actualy, I must admit to putting my mind through the equivelent of a game of TWISTER when I considered, deeply, the implications of the Hebrew language not having a verb "to be". For a dyed-in-the-wool techie, like me, that rocks the whole boat.
Enough from me -
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Too Gray Now
Sorry for the derail. I did not mean to turn this into a different discussion.
Loosening one's grip on a world view - is a process, indeed. It can sneak up on ya, if you fiddle around with the fundamentals.
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cman
yeah...no derail here.....
this is -becomes -becoming what the first post speaks of
imho.....
up and down the scaffold - or side to side if one likes...
don't matter what part, just trying to see more parts
some we like more then others-just life in general...
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Belle
I don't consider it a derail, TGN. Even if it is, please, continue. I've been thinking a lot since reading your post about "becoming" vs. "is"-ness. I like that and it IS more accurate to how I feel most of the time. I'm rather fond of saying that "this" is my opinion/viewpoint/belief "right now" and it is subject to change at any moment. Ask the same question tomorrow and you most likely will get a different answer from me.
I, too, consider our "feelings" inside to be pretty darn good guides of what's right and wrong or, better, "true" to ourselves and our own personal morality, philosophy, what have you. I believe if I had paid more attention to those things when I was younger it would have saved me quite a bit of grief, but, alas, we're exactly where we should be, no?
I subscribe to the Daily OM and today's seems to be rather fitting to this discussion. I hope y'all don't mind my posting it here:
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Too Gray Now
Belle,
Thanks. In your quote, at the bottom:
"Your ability to influence people may grow more sophisticated because others sense that you respect their right to be themselves, but you will likely spend more time gazing inward, into the one person you can change: yourself."
Ok. NOW I am gonna de-rail this puppy! :)
I used to travel a lot - much less now. But I still like to enguage people at the airport, on the train, etc. right in the eyes - pure strangers to me. When I do, I practice different active thoughts - my intentions towards them - I intend to accept them. Just to see what happens.
Sure as can be - if I am intending acceptance... and let my face muscles do the natural things that those intentions tug upon - people do respond. Often, with a perceptive softening in their face - or in some cases, a very broad smile. Or they may say, "Do I KNOW you??" It is fascinating to watch.
But, if I just sort of keep to myself and use the "Urban Glazed - I-don't-give-a-shi*" expression which is so common... Nothing happens.
But, I have had to do a lot of inner work to get a place where I could broadcast a coherent message.
If change on the other person's part is not required for acceptance... that gets communicated. If something in me is offended by "them" - it is literally something in me. It is not them. It is my problem. Not their problem at all. Then I use EFT or some other mechanism to deal with it and clear it.
We are marvelous creatures - complex - sensitive... People have the circuitry to get all of this info - so why not broadcast it? But, our "communication" gets full of static when we have not done the work to reconcile our own offenses.
What I am saying here is not some new thing - it has been around for ages.
Thanks, Bell.
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sirguessalot
this thread seems kinda hard to derail, given all the options
i dont mind throwing words into a well like this here together
and am deeply appreciating them for the moments they represent
trusting them for what they seem and seem not to be
trusting our chaordic nature
i am also riding a busy wave and have to fast from posting for awhile
but i am enjoying reading ... and will be back take another stabbatitall
good to read you here TGN
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cman
trying to break the language barrier
the belief barrier
the sound barrier
the light barrier
those 5 are seen in all languages beliefs and speech
or can be when looked for, quite easily i've seen
wonder what it takes to shake the tree
loosen the soil up for growth
to get water to where it's needed
nutrients to move
I am becoming....always something....
a chance to see it happening from many points
take a sledge hammer
and put your faith on the anvil
and smash the hell out of it
and see what will not break
the anvil is nothing
neither is the hammer
if nothing breaks
Edited by cmanLink to comment
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Belle
TGN, I do the same thing!
Only, sometimes, even when I'm trying the urban "don't mess with me" attitude it doesn't work.
I've wondered at times if it's because that's not really my nature, even when I really would rather be left alone - like on a long flight when I've got a really good book to read.
I've downloaded the EFT stuff but haven't read all of it or practiced it with any regularity. Do you use it often? Have you noticed a lot of effectiveness using it? Maybe I should take that conversation offline to PM/e-mail?
Todd, I hope the busy wave is a fun one. :)
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Bramble
A large change in my life post TWI that seems to fit with this thread( in a way) is how I deal with what I see as problems with the world we live in. For so long, my emphasis was on changing people by getting them to agree with what I thought and to act like I act(TWI doctrine etc). That proved to be futile in the long run. Once you decide you can and should change people you figure out that others think they can and should change you.
Now I put my energies toward circumstances I can change, not people... I can donate time and food to the food bank, for instance, or help out an elderly co worker wth yard work, or stay home and take care of my own family and home. Many things seem too small to matter, I guess, but they are conscieous on my part and I know of others who are quietly making similar decisions. The stone in the pond affect, perhaps... But then I now see practical matters as being part of the spiritual, not some separate activity that must be done so I can work the Word or whatever.
Hey Belle, could I be included in the EFT discussion? I've been reading it but not practising it.
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Too Gray Now
Belle & Bramble;
I am carrying no water for XYZ, here - meaning I am not a therapist or rep... - but I have found EFT to be a very remarkable tool. I use the various techniques regularly and I have noticed everything from nothing to astounding results in my life and in the lives of others.
I have done it myself - meaning I have never been to see an EFT therapist. I ordered the DVDs and read and just started using it. This speaks to me about the user-friendly nature of the tool.
I tell others "Look, just start using it. Your belief is not necessary to make it (EFT protocol) work... so don't spend a lot of time trying to get your logic to buy into it or explain it all before you decide to use it."
Yeah, we should probably take this part of the discussion off line - PM - or email - or phone...
I will PM you guys.
CMAN -
I like that about smashing your faith.
Heck, learnng to enguage with life (without the felt need to first dress up all of one's daily events in tired, old, hand-me-down straight-jackets of doctrinal explanation) sure is a lot more real. I find I need very few beliefs in order to function these days. I just don't need them for this part of my journey. So, I dumped 'em and said Goodbye.
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