What made you finally leave?

[Belle]

Hmmmmm........I dunno exactly...it was a series of things, really. I was never really very solidly involved until I got engaged really. THEN, I was at every effen thing. I cried all the way through my bridal shower and, looking back, I think it's because I knew it was a mistake. I knew that this was not where I wanted my life to be heading, but didn't know how to stop the merry go round.

After a few years of being good little married TWIts, I was ready to start a family and really wanted to buy a home seeing how much rent was and how much wiser it would be to start paying that toward the roof over our head that we would need long term. My ex couldn't afford for me to be a stay at home mom as TWI "strongly suggested", so he decided we weren't going to have kids because he wasn't going to let "the world" raise 'em.

I was increasingly frustrated with how much TWI demanded of our time and how tired I was all the time. I was always annoyed with the micromanagement of our lives and the incessant teachings that we weren't good enough for God. My self-esteem went through the basement and I couldn't even make the simplest decision on my own. I was tired of feeling stupid, helpless and so dependent on my ex and TWI for everything.

THEN the Allen lawsuit was announced. They told us to stay off the internet and that's when I KNEW there was more to the story than they were telling us. I automatically went to the internet and found WayDale - then GSpot - then, finally five years later - I came to the realization that my ex didn't love me - he loved TWI and if it were to come to a choice between the two of us, TWI would win.

I sent Chris Jordan's research on debt to a friend at HQ who had been forced to stay on staff a year longer. I did it anonymously because....well, I don't know why....but TWI and the Moneyhands traced the letter back to me through the Pitney Bowes machine (yes, I know, stupid me). I was "allowed" to quit going to fellowship and shortly thereafter my ex decided that I was an "unbeliever" and no longer "pleased to dwell" with him, the believer. He said there would be more freedom for both of us if we were to divorce. So, that's how I left, but I think it was a compilation of things over the past eight years.

Sorry for the ramble, but I don't know how to shorten it to just one thing....

[ex10]

There were so many straws for me. I must explain that I personally marked and avoided all way functions a couple of years before my husband did. (It was easy to do, because I had a baby in 87, and another one in 89.) So nobody seemed to notice that I was not travelling to meetings and classes.

The final straw was when a fellow corps person called to talked to Hubby about the loyalty letter. It was in the spring of 89, I think. Hubby wasn't home, so he asked me what I thought.

I said I thought it was a joke coming from someone who couldn't keep his pants zipped. (Ok, I was a little cranky that day.)

Next thing we know, we are banned from all local way functions. The way they did it was horribly cruel, but that's another story for another time I guess.

Edited February 13, 2006 by ex10

[FreeFromCults]

Hmmmmm........I dunno exactly...it was a series of things, really. I was never really very solidly involved until I got engaged really. THEN, I was at every effen thing. I cried all the way through my bridal shower and, looking back, I think it's because I knew it was a mistake. I knew that this was not where I wanted my life to be heading, but didn't know how to stop the merry go round.

After a few years of being good little married TWIts, I was ready to start a family and really wanted to buy a home seeing how much rent was and how much wiser it would be to start paying that toward the roof over our head that we would need long term. My ex couldn't afford for me to be a stay at home mom as TWI "strongly suggested", so he decided we weren't going to have kids because he wasn't going to let "the world" raise 'em.

I was increasingly frustrated with how much TWI demanded of our time and how tired I was all the time. I was always annoyed with the micromanagement of our lives and the incessant teachings that we weren't good enough for God. My self-esteem went through the basement and I couldn't even make the simplest decision on my own. I was tired of feeling stupid, helpless and so dependent on my ex and TWI for everything.

THEN the Allen lawsuit was announced. They told us to stay off the internet and that's when I KNEW there was more to the story than they were telling us. I automatically went to the internet and found WayDale - then GSpot - then, finally five years later - I came to the realization that my ex didn't love me - he loved TWI and if it were to come to a choice between the two of us, TWI would win.

I sent Chris Jordan's research on debt to a friend at HQ who had been forced to stay on staff a year longer. I did it anonymously because....well, I don't know why....but TWI and the Moneyhands traced the letter back to me through the Pitney Bowes machine (yes, I know, stupid me). I was "allowed" to quit going to fellowship and shortly thereafter my ex decided that I was an "unbeliever" and no longer "pleased to dwell" with him, the believer. He said there would be more freedom for both of us if we were to divorce. So, that's how I left, but I think it was a compilation of things over the past eight years.

Sorry for the ramble, but I don't know how to shorten it to just one thing....

That's OK Belle.

Stories as yours are good for everyone to learn what type of evil is the TWI and getting it out of your chest several times may be good for your physical and mental health, literally getting TWI out of your system like getting snot out of your body to get over a cold.

I do sympathize with you as you were more deeply involved and you stayed there a lot longer (8+ years) than me (3 years). I only took PFAL (twice), Intermediate (once), Rise and Expansion class (once) and DTA (once), never took WAP, new intermediate and AC, never went WOW nor even signed up for Leader$*@! class nor Corpse.

We all lived and learned. We're better off now without them than with them.

[Littlehawk]

Some here might remember VPW slipping up behind me in Kenyon Hall and slapping me in the back of the head for falling asleep during a class. He then proceeded into this big tirade about my having been raised on to much meat and potatoes. I guess Socks said it best (the buns got changed), I decided to change my diet. This little incident started the ball rolling, but the real straw is another story . One dealing with a confrontation from an elder while waiting in the breakfast line at the BRC at Hdqtrs shortly after.It was one of those great spewing and spitting sessions for all to witness. I regret not sticking around for my last breakfast, its not good to travel on an empty stomach. I gotta run now, the pizza is done!

[Sweetpea]

It was the chance to be free from all the pompous *sses that were in leadership and people that I would never tolerate in real life.

[T-Bone]

Wow – this is a great topic!!! What was it that made me want to leave? Silence. After Geer detonated his "Passing of the Patriarch" TWI leadership hovered in crisis-management mode for some time. I remember thinking the fate of TWI rested on the status of the board of trustees. I also remember my frustrated efforts to find out what was going on at headquarters. By December 1986 my wife and I were so tired and utterly confused by the double-talk, spiritualizing, and blame shifting that WE ALL were doing. We decided to try something drastic – resign from our position as branch coordinators. However, let me clarify our motivation to do that, which will undoubtedly disappoint the hero-worshippers out there. Let me also say this is not the point at which I intended to leave TWI.

We resigned from our leadership position because we felt it was not honest to represent an organization that kept us in the dark about its operations [like TWI having all the clergy meet to go over Patriarch/Geer stuff but not inviting corps]. I think that also our resignation was a cry for help, expressing how serious we felt about getting some information – as a wife would threaten to leave her workaholic husband unless he starts paying attention to her.

In January 1987, I wrote a 2-page letter to our corps coordinator and LCM announcing our resignation as branch coordinators but also asked many questions about what was going on, what was being done, etc. Never heard back from our corps coordinator – but did get a response from LCM in February. It was short and sweet – take out the Epistle-like greeting and it was one sentence saying he hoped TWI could win my trust back in the future. THAT ladies and gentleman started the ball rolling! Silence! [Kind of odd – how can I put an exclamation point after the word "silence"? The thespian spirit just whelps up inside me.]

With no real response from the man in charge of the bozos on this bus, I was left to my own devices. My simple plan was to investigate VPW's doctrine and credentials. For a while, my wife and I were still going to the twigs in our former branch – but you can imagine how the awkwardness grew. Especially so, as I would discover serious flaws in PFAL stuff and VPW's bogus claims of scholarship [like the letter I posted on another thread – from Moody Bible Correspondence School saying it had no record of VPW completing any courses through them]. Eventually we quit going to twig – although we did keep in touch with a few of the local believers – and answered "crazy mail" from our friends still in the corps, who were saying things to us like we're deceived by devil spirits, possessed, and we're quitters. You know, I probably would still be in TWI if LCM would have laid a little bs on me – quoted some Bible, appealed to me ego ["You're Corps dammit!"], or promise me a more comfortable cot at corps week.

I'm no expert on cults or why the mass-exodus after the Patriarch bomb – but I am the foremost expert on T-Bone's 12 year involvement with TWI. I draw on some analogies to make sense of it and sort things out. I think for some people the experience of leaving TWI is like the apostle Paul's crisis on the way to Damascus [Acts 9: 1-30]. He was a Pharisee, zealously persecuting the church, having the Pharisee-Slant on the Old Testament [Philippians 3: 4-6]. Then, one fateful day, as he's riding on his high horse and the resurrected Jesus confronts him! Paul didn't throw out the Old Testament or quit believing there was a God. I think what he did do was start dismantling his Pharisee-influenced belief system.

In Luke 11: 52 Jesus said woe to the experts in the law, because they have taken away the KEY to knowledge. The leadership who should have opened people's minds concerning the law obscured the people's understanding by their erroneous theology. For Paul and others crawling out from under the religious rubble it's an exciting revelation that Jesus Christ is THE KEY to knowledge. Working out the details and sorting through the mess will take some time. Kenneth Wuest in "Galatians in the Greek New Testament" in his comments about Galatians 1: 13- 24 suggests Paul spent three years in Arabia after his conversion to spend a lot of time alone with God, "The revelation of the Son of God had blasted away the foundations of the Pharisaic thought structure which he had been building up with such consummate skill and zeal, and it had come tumbling down in ruins about his head. This revelation also furnished him with a another foundation upon which to build a new theological structure…There in Arabia, isolated from all human contact, alone with God, the great apostle restudied his Old Testament scriptures, not now with the Pharisee traditions vitiating his thinking, but, led by the Holy Spirit, with the central fact of the Cross of the Lord Jesus as the controlling factor in his meditations."

And for all you movie lovers out there here's another analogy – one that has a double whammy. The first time I saw "The Matrix" I loved playing with the idea of Neo [Keeanu Reeves] experiencing what every person goes through after their conversion to Christianity – being unplugged from the world's system and awakening to reality. It wasn't until I joined Grease Spot that I toyed with another slant on "The Matrix." This interpretation I rename "The Way's Tricks." Probably other Café members have thought or talked about this [but I haven't taken the time to read all the threads yet – so anyway here goes]. You'll recall the purpose of all the pods containing people hooked up to The Matrix was to provide the Matrix with power. The people were like batteries for the Matrix. The Matrix had all these cables hooked up to each body for life support and even ran a program in their heads to help maintain brain activity. I think of how BUSY and OVERWORKED I was as corps in residence. I remember how afraid I was in the first few months of leaving TWI – the world was a scary place. I also remember an odd, exciting – good sensation – perhaps of one awaking from a long sleep.

Edited February 16, 2006 by T-Bone

[Outin88.]

Welcome to Greasespotcafe T-Bone.

Nice post. Thanks for sharing, I especially like the Matrix analogy.

[litlome]

Hi, everyone!

I've finally decided to post something after having been reading your posts for a couple of years now.

Well, my experience is a little different (or, maybe, a lot different) in that I live in a country far from the States,and even far from Gartmore, which was supposed to be our HQs (I don't think they actually ever officially assumed the role despite taking our ABS ).

Of course we also had to put up with the usual c--p like micromanagement, pressure to attend all kinds of WAY functions, to neglect family - studies - work, ed al., but only to a minor degree. No ruined lives here.

I would say that for the most part we met some great people and we had great times and we thought we did our best for God, and, there was no doubt in our minds that ours was the rightly divided Word of God.

And yet there came a time about 6,5 years ago, when "scales" fell off our eyes. That's the only way I can put it. It didn't happen to me only. It happened simultaneously to almost everyone in our group. It all started with a friend who introduced us to B.G.Leonard's "Gifts of the Spirit" class, but it was not about following B.G.L. and leaving VPW.

All of a sudden, often independently of one another, we would realize the fallacies and the mistakes in many - many of the things we had been taught (in pretty much everything, actually, and especially where JC was concerned). I'll never forget the excitement of those days, the night-long talks and the feeling I had like a veil was being removed from before my eyes.

We discussed at length why we had to stay with the Way (some of us for a good 15 years!) and where God had been. For me, and for many of my friends, there is no doubt that it was God who led us to the Way, despite the wrong teaching - too many signs and wonders to doubt that and maybe our other alternatives would have been darker- just like it was God again who opened our eyes and showed us that it was time to move on with a mass exodus.

No hard feelings, though.

[skyrider]

Welcome to GS, litlome.

Nice post.

[WordWolf]

For me, and for many of my friends, there is no doubt that it was God who led us to the Way, despite the wrong teaching - too many signs and wonders to doubt that and maybe our other alternatives would have been darker- just like it was God again who opened our eyes and showed us that it was time to move on with a mass exodus.

No hard feelings, though.

Some people would be surprised how many of us would agree with you about this.

Except maybe the "no hard feelings" part.

:)

In other news, hello.

I take it you've already read the greeting and Greasespot 101,

so I've nothing useful to add beyond them at the moment.

The others will be along with their own greetings.

[litlome]

Thank you very much, Skyrider and Wordwolf. I am touched by your warm welcome.

Actually, no, I haven't read the greeting or Greasespot 101. I'll do it one of these days.

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

litlome

welcome

thanks for sharing

[ex70sHouston]

I left long long ago in a different TWI.

The teachings did not fit like a hand in a glove.

I am/was a grown man who didn't need a call if I missed fellowship.

I didn't need someone else directing me to only date women who were in the WAY.

I wanted a more normal worship experience than what fellowship offered.

I left and never regretted it.

After reading what happened in the 80's and 90's I only wonder why no one went postal at HQ.

[T-Bone]

Welcome to the Cafe, litlome - thanks for sharing! I like your attitude:

"We discussed at length why we had to stay with the Way (some of us for a good 15 years!) and where God had been. For me, and for many of my friends, there is no doubt that it was God who led us to the Way, despite the wrong teaching - too many signs and wonders to doubt that and maybe our other alternatives would have been darker- just like it was God again who opened our eyes and showed us that it was time to move on with a mass exodus.No hard feelings, though."

Sometimes God worked through people in TWI - sometimes in spite of people in TWI.

[doojable]

Nice post T-Bone - and HI! Also, welcome litsome!

I left very simply because LCM decided to draw a line in the sand - the wrong line. I had always said that I would stay with TWI as long as God was at the center. I even tried to stay in the wake of POP. Now I had left for about a year prior to POP because of things I would rather not elaborate on now - but it was one of those things that in retrospect was the writing on the wall.

While I was out I wanted to write a letter to DR telling him just how great it was to be out for a year. ( I knew that I hadn't left God so I didn't feel any guilt -) I felt like twi gave us some kind of weird perpective on life that just wasn't real and made it hard to talk to the average person.

Glad i didnt' do that! Anway, once I got that letter from lcm I felt like I was being asked to follow a man and not God. Quite frankly, ( and I apologize to mark o'malley and any other Catholics) I was raised in the RC church and my dad had been raised in a RC monastary - so I was in no way shape or form going to follow a man with blind obedience.

That's it - nothing tragic or heroic - just seemed time to leave.

[justloafing]

After reading what happened in the 80's and 90's I only wonder why no one went postal at HQ.

vp and lcm made up for anyone going "postal". Look at how many lives were ruined.

[outofdafog]

I had allowed a family member to come and live with me. He did attend fellowship a couple of times but flat out told me he did not want to take the class.. years ago he had taken the PFAL and it never stuck like it did with me. It was okay with TWI that he lived with me as long as he showed up at fellowship once in a while and put something in the horn. When they started pushing for him to sign up for WAP he adamantly was not going to do it. He worked second shift and was just getting his life together and didn't want to rock the boat at work. I can understand this.

Fast forward to fellow$*@! coordinators (hubby and wife's) house with branch coordinator - 3 against one and voila - you have confrontation time. I knew it was coming because I had seen others confronted for many many different VIOLATIONS. I was accused of being the lowest of the lowest believer - that I was totally going against God's will by allowing him to stay and I literally refused during that confrontation to do what they wanted me to do - kick him out. My brother had been a cocaine addict and alcoholic for most of his life. Since living with me he had been clean and sober for about a year. We were getting along just fine and there was no way that I was going to just kick him out with no where to go - he was doing very well with his job and his sobriety. I felt that when he and I decided to live seperately - that was our business. And I really believed God was working that in my heart, and what they were trying to get me to do was totally contrary to what God was working in me. I of course got the boot and cried on the way out of their house, but can say I haven't cried since about that outfit.

Basically I chose to continue to love and stand by my "earthly" brother and this was wrong in their eyes.

[WordWolf]

After reading what happened in the 80's and 90's I only wonder why no one went postal at HQ.

Standard policy was: anyone seeming psychiatrically unstable

was sent straight home.

(See the thread "vp and me in wonderland" for 2 examples.)

As for nobody going postal, that depends.

T*m M blew his own brains own with a pistol because

lcm was doing his wife. Does that count as postal enough?

To my thinking, 'yes', but you may disagree.

[ChasUFarley]

Standard policy was: anyone seeming psychiatrically unstable

was sent straight home.

(See the thread "vp and me in wonderland" for 2 examples.)

As for nobody going postal, that depends.

T*m M blew his own brains own with a pistol because

lcm was doing his wife. Does that count as postal enough?

To my thinking, 'yes', but you may disagree.

WordWolf - not to derail this thread, but could you please go into a little more detail on the situation you are referring to, above? Thanks!

[FreeFromCults]

I had allowed a family member to come and live with me. He did attend fellowship a couple of times but flat out told me he did not want to take the class.. years ago he had taken the PFAL and it never stuck like it did with me. It was okay with TWI that he lived with me as long as he showed up at fellowship once in a while and put something in the horn. When they started pushing for him to sign up for WAP he adamantly was not going to do it. He worked second shift and was just getting his life together and didn't want to rock the boat at work. I can understand this.

Fast forward to fellow$*@! coordinators (hubby and wife's) house with branch coordinator - 3 against one and voila - you have confrontation time. I knew it was coming because I had seen others confronted for many many different VIOLATIONS. I was accused of being the lowest of the lowest believer - that I was totally going against God's will by allowing him to stay and I literally refused during that confrontation to do what they wanted me to do - kick him out. My brother had been a cocaine addict and alcoholic for most of his life. Since living with me he had been clean and sober for about a year. We were getting along just fine and there was no way that I was going to just kick him out with no where to go - he was doing very well with his job and his sobriety. I felt that when he and I decided to live seperately - that was our business. And I really believed God was working that in my heart, and what they were trying to get me to do was totally contrary to what God was working in me. I of course got the boot and cried on the way out of their house, but can say I haven't cried since about that outfit.

Basically I chose to continue to love and stand by my "earthly" brother and this was wrong in their eyes.

When you helped your brother out, you did make a difference in his life. You helped your brother get better and that is what LOVE is all about. That's the kinda of LOVE that God wants. Hey, JesusChrist hung out with a thief, a tax collector, an alleged prostitute, and the sick.

It shows you that ministry is not about "LOVE" to others. Only about LOVE to itself.

No Wonder why the ministry is shrinking.

No wonder why not many people nowadays want to join the ministry.

[waterbuffalo]

. He was a Pharisee, zealously persecuting the church, having the Pharisee-Slant on the Old Testament [Philippians 3: 4-6]. Then, one fateful day, as he's riding on his high horse and the resurrected Jesus confronts him! ]

T-Bone, I plan to finish up reading your post when I get home from work, but you said in a nutshell what I believe happened to me and why I got out, "as he's riding on his high horse and the resurrected Jesus confronts him!" I think that was what happened to me, too. Then, I just quit communicating with them.

How do you do that quote thing?

Edited February 24, 2006 by waterbuffalo

[WordWolf]

How do you do that quote thing?

There's a few ways.

The easy way:

1) Find the post you want to quote.

2) Look at the bottom right corner of the quote.

3) Click the "quote" button.

4) If necessary, erase the parts you DON'T want to quote.

You might add "(snip)" at those points to make it obvious

you're cutting out part of the original post.

5) Post your comments after the quote block.

[waterbuffalo]

Thanks, WW. Hope you are well :)

There's a few ways.

The easy way:

1) Find the post you want to quote.

2) Look at the bottom right corner of the quote.

3) Click the "quote" button.

4) If necessary, erase the parts you DON'T want to quote.

You might add "(snip)" at those points to make it obvious

you're cutting out part of the original post.

5) Post your comments after the quote block.

Hi litlome and welcome. Have a cuppa on moi

Edited February 25, 2006 by waterbuffalo

[justloafing]

Thanks, WW. Hope you are well. Now my puter does not work right. Thanks a ton. <_<

Or you can add to what they said and really pi$$ the person off. Not recomended

[waterbuffalo]

hehe, jl